My last post in this thread,above, may look a little obscure to some.
I am not trying to take the heat off Labor or the unions.
Both are linked in the way I spoke of.
But before ignoring my , highlighting the lost nature of Pyne, consider the following.
I have repeatedly said, both sides are needed if we are to get the best government we can.
Blind foot stamping about Labors wrongs, while ignoring Liberal ones is not productive.
Pyne, Both Bishops, Abbott, and Hockey in my view, are not up to the better standards true Liberals once had.
Rudds destruction/kifing, in my view let standards slip on both sides.
IF we demand better, from both sides, we will get it, from both sides.
Both sides of the house owe much more than they delivered.
As my charges against Labor are true.
So too are those against the named front benchers on the other team.
No claim is made other than that, no criminal acts no fraud ,just a willingness to for get truth.

Dear Belly,

I couldn't agree with you more.
We do deserve better from our politicians
as watching "Question Time," in the last week
of Parliament clearly showed us.

I am a member of a union, but I've never been
put in a position where I've had to go out on strike.
And as I've posted in the past - although I'm
sometimes frustrated when the union does its job
badly, I support without reservation the right of all
working people to join together so as to preserve and
protect their livelihoods.

Of course, unions need to be snesitive to the realities of
modern economic conditions. Sectarian attitudes and greed
serve the cause of labour badly.

However, we are in critical times and Australia requires a
re-assessment of the relationship between labour and
capital, a re-assessment which takes into account the
politics of industrial democracy, profit, and long term
planning. The only way in which the country can work properly
is for management and labour to co-operate with one another,
not condemn one another. Here's hoping that 2013 - will be a
better year.

Dear Belly,

The following is part of what I got from Christine Milne of the Greens today:

"Dear friend,

The Earth is on track towards a 4-6°C temperature increase by the end of this century, a rise that would deliver ‘an almost unrecognisable planet’.

That’s the news from the UN climate negotiations just ended in Doha.

Scientists have warned that without a rapid change to our energy systems, our chance to stave off the most extreme global warming scenarios will vanish.

Keeping Greens in Parliament is more important than ever before. Please donate now to support the Greens' 2013 re-election fund.

It’s not too late - But the changes needed require leadership, and the ability to stand up to big business and vested interests who will not consider anything beyond short term profit.

We know that Labor and the Liberals can’t be trusted on this critical issue.

The Greens are the only ones who will take the challenge head on. It’s only because the Greens held balance of power in both houses of the federal Parliament that we now have a price on pollution, giving industry a clear signal to change. We negotiated multi-billion dollar funds to boost renewable energy and protect wildlife across the nation."

Regardless of how unpopular the Greens are and regardless how many leftists or others you don't like who are in the Greens she is right.

The Greens are the only ones who will take the challenge head on. Labor and the Coalition simply are more concerned with getting and keeping power.

Thanks Lixi, some thoughts and memory,s I can not share here,from my working days.
I can say while forever proud of mine, some unions need to refocus on service.
David you always have my respect, I remember you told us your age, and that you know a bit about the subject.
While Liberals, under current leader and his controllers, arenot eco friendly.
Turnbull was./is
Labor kick started your party, it gave you the Franklin Dam victory,we had our nose rubbed in it for the NT National park.
And I claim on Bob Carr,s behalf, more new national parks the ANY OTHER state leader.
David, never ignore the many heads your party shows the world.
Please do not discount public feelings toward your two leaders, one hot eyed and with a sign not seen but there, around her neck saying *Avoid at all costs*
The other? her sign says *find the channel changer*
Sorry but how can I say this without offending you? is truth justified even if it hurts?
*Australia would be better if the greens did not want carbon reduction*
*Fact is many oppose every thing the greens support*
Poll, truth will out we are going to need a miracle to see Labor returned.
And if as I see it a double dissolution election follows.
Both Labor and Liberal will target greens.
David in my view voters if given the chance would vote to abolish upper houses for no other reason than to get rid of greens.
I have much more to say about power brokers and filth , some times one is both.
Infesting my party feeding from it killing it.
Labor is better than that, we will trounce them.

Dear Belly,

Fact is that many oppose everything the Greens stand for. I don't argue that. We agree on that. So what!

That doesn't mean the Greens are wrong. That just means the Greens are unpopular. Tell people what they don't want to hear, and people will not like it even if it's true.

Fact is there is no way you can tell people that they have to change their ways to make a sustainable future and have people like you.

My age means nothing as to whether I'm right or wrong. It does not deserve respect as such. I just happened to choose some long lived ancestors and have apparently inherited their genes. My father was a heavy smoker and lived to 92. His older brothers were heavy smokers and drinkers and both died at 98. My mother's grandfather lived to a 107. Outside of hay fever I have no medical problems and expect to live out the year.

I am glad that Labor has declared the national parks in the seas around Australia. I am glad that Turnbull is concerned with the environment. If the major parties both had the concern with the environment the Greens had the Greens could disappear for all I care. A political party as just a means to an end. It is just an arrangement to get what you want. It only deserves loyalty as long as it is working for what you want. Your loyalty to Labor is apparently because it used to represent the workingman. It is backed by many unions. As far as I am concerned it shafted the workingman when Keating pushed economic rationalisation and is still shafting the workingman even though it has the name of Labor. Like the Coalition it gets big bucks from the corporations and is going to do what they want. One thing they want is to be allowed to destroy the environment without interference. They get that to a large degree.

What Doha has shown us is that most of the world will do nothing to reduce or even slow the growth in CO2 emission. If Aus reduced emissions by 100% it would not make a measurable difference.

Juliar's / green's plan which sees emissions in Aus increase by 7.5%, and moves production overseas is a complete joke.