Lexi thanks will answer you soon.
David f know mate I like you very much so.
And that my thoughts are, while unacceptable to you, truly held.
I mixed in strange places at work, saw the most extreme union supporting greens.
I know you did not start out socialist, but too, every refugee from the very left lives in your party.
Paul, and some times you, dislike my stated thoughts, believe me, you both would be SHOCKED to hear the views of middle Australia, and true Labor about the greens.
Lexi you are right, but this fight, to save the ALP has been going full tilt and I am not giving up.
This much is true, right or wrong, so very many will not vote for us until it is fixed, Faulkner is in my view a man we should look to, he should get the leadership, my party needs such a man.
Those who held the knife/hide the crimes do not deserve a reward.
I shudder in telling you this, the right, my life time right,betrayed my party.

Hi Belly,

I think the point I was trying to make is that given the integration and cross dependencies that have taken place over the past 40 years, there is absolutely no hope of reform. You can’t have the fox in charge of the hen house and expect the chickens to survive.

Sorry Belly but the ALP will have to start all over again and reinvent itself as a political party without the current parasitic relationships that are going to kill it off.

We have to accept that if the internal processes of what we now refer to as the ALP government, are regarded by some within the ALP as non-democratic, then the way we are governed is likewise non-democratic.

A rock and a hard place I’m afraid. Much as you may feel that I’m one of those right wing, sexist nut-jobs, I’m very much a centrist and do not relish the prospect under any circumstances of not having an effective opposition of any flavor.

Hi Belly,

Just trying to clear up a misunderstanding.

You said “While spindoc would like us to think the whole Labor/Union tree is infected, every fruit every leaf every action, it is not so.

I entirely agree with your statement.

I believe that the trade union movement has delivered more positive reforms than any other entity in our industrial and social history. I do not believe that there is any inherent evil in the ALP, the government or caucus.

What I am suggesting is that by completely integrating the induction/recruitment processes to provide political career paths, and by making each element co-dependent on the dispensation of favors, this has encouraged and fostered corruption of each element by the other elements. That is why you cannot unscramble the eggs.

Everything you are struggling to justify and explain on this thread is the symptoms and NOT the causes.

I hope this helps you understand where I’m coming from

Hi spindoc,

Nice to hear from you.

Dear Belly,

It is complicated. I have to admit that I don't know that
much about the inner workings of our political parties.
I've never belonged to any particular party. I've always
simply voted for the policies that made sense to me.
However, I imagine it's no easy task to reform any
party, especially as I stated earlier -
when established power players who hold the
numbers see no incentive to change. I truly admire your
perserverance and hope that you, and people like you,
will continue to try to make changes for the better.

Hi Lexi, likewise, it’s good to be back.

Belly, I know of none so loyal or dedicated to their allegiances as you. It’s a pity there aren’t more in your political domain that demonstrate such courage in support what you believe.

I have seen you go in to bat against extraordinary odds; I have seen much in you change to accommodate different perspectives. I don’t have to agree with your political perspectives and probably never will however; I think I speak for many when I say you have earned much respect.

I am truly distressed that you beat up on yourself because others have let you down. It is they who have broken faith with people like you, not the other way round. In my earlier posts I went the long way round to say what I’ve just said but I’m now glad I cut to the chase and said what I am feeling.

Whilst ever the components of the “fabric” of the ALP, Trade Unions, caucus et al are bound as a single amorphous blob, the backbone of your party cannot accommodate its real support base. It must be teased apart to restore the integrity of each component part. Only then will there be room for the Belly’s of this world.

I hope my meanderings are understood by you, I think you know what I’m getting at.

I look forward to jousting with a refreshed and invigorated Belly in 2013.

Belly you seem to confuse policy ie "JR, his out standing roll in his anti work choices bus trip, his stand again power sell off." That is not reform, nor is sacking a couple of high profile ALP criminals that is reaction, not reform. In NSW we have a major problem it's called the O'Farrell Government. A government which is set to attack the rights of ordinary people. Unfortunately the ALP fails to mount a creditable opposition, I suspect to busy with internal problems. Much of the attack on O'Farrell has been left to the 6 Greens in State parliament.
Can you offer any inkling of ALP reform? eg. meaningful changes to party voting, endorsement procedures etc.
p/s You give as good as you get when it comes to posting guff. Here's some YOU started on this thread: "If we look at Paul,s workers paradise the Soviet Union and its slave states." can you show where I said the Soviet Union was a workers paradise, in fact can you show anywhere on this forum where I heap any kind of praise on the Soviet Union. you made it up. Then there is this with the intention to mock and insult, calling me a "naked Morris Dancer". All water off a ducks back. I'll have you know I went out and got me some clothes, fortunately the shop only had a green pixie suit left, greens my colour, so now you can refer to me as Pixie Paul if you so wish. As I said to you before, I don't take anyone on this forum seriously, including myself, however some do see themselves as legends in their own lunchtime."
SM Greens end of year was great tin foil hats and organic tofu all round, not to mention the yummy mung beans.