http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/the-painful-last-gasp-of-islamic-hate/story-e6frg6zo-1226478858085
From Australia's only National news paper, the link is telling.
Not just the words.
The photo shows clearly the hate.
jayb you will not find poirot to be a Muslim.
I find it strange, the tight bond in this case between csteele and poirot.
But doubt csteele is Muslim.
That the time, worth it I promise, to read csteeles posting history, just hit on the little man under a post.
Answers will come, and that is the only way you will get them.

Dear Danielle,

I have no trouble acknowledging the Kohomeini regime was several orders more brutal even than the Shah's infamous SAVAK.

If the is one thing the 20th century has shown us is that revolutions are often far more savage than simple coups. It often seems to matter little what the ideology is, left, right, Muslim, Jewish, Christian etc. While nations like the pre-revolutionary Iran can seem to be adopting Western democratic power structures they are often far less enthusiastic about adopting and defending the institutions that prevent abuses of that power. When the Iranian people voted overwhelmingly to install an Islamic state they had little to protect them from its ensuing excesses.

Throughout this thread I have worked to counter the notion that there is something inherently untoward about the Muslim faith in comparison to other ideologies. All are capable of the grossest violations of human dignity and freedoms. It is instructive to know that the man who oversaw the worst of the Ayatollah's prisons had been severely tortured within the same walls under the Shah's regime. Often brutality be-gets brutality. Yet in comparison to other dictatorships it is nothing special. Similar numbers of 'disappeared persons' occurred under the Argentine Junta with the express support of the US.

“State Department documents obtained by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act show that in October 1976, Secretary of State Henry Kissinger and high-ranking U.S. officials gave their full support to the Argentine military junta and urged them to hurry up and finish the "dirty war" before the U.S. Congress cut military aid.”
Wikipedia

I see quite positive moves within Iran to move away from the all encompassing straight jacket of conservative Islam. Also some of the institutional balances have been maintained. There are still Jewish and Christian members within its parliament. There does seem to be a brighter future ahead for the Persian people. Let us hope it is not ripped away from them by others from within or without.

Cont...

Cont...

You inform us that “Bilkay Öney, a member of the Green-Social Democratic Party (SPD) in Germany, is a Muslim, of Turkish origin.” then point us to “Soeren Kern, a person of impressive background and experience.”.

Now I don't know what Mr Kern's origin or religion are though I suspect he may be Jewish, not only because he studied for a time at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem but because of the tone of his writings. Do you think it is important that we know? I do because it would help us determine his agenda.

I went to the link of his you provided and picked the fifth piece down as it was about Australia. Here is what I found.

“A recent study titled "Secret Saudi Funding of Radical Islamic Groups in Australia" found that Saudi Arabia is spending billions of dollars to promote radical Islam in the country, including through the construction of mosques, schools and Islamic cultural centers." A key Saudi objective is to prevent Muslim immigrants from integrating into Australian society in order to promote the establishment of a parallel Muslim society in the country.”

No they are not.

I might need you to tell me why I should persist.

You wrote; “The Gladstone Institute's report quotes Abu Assad al-Almani … I can not find any other references to him.”

It was a truncated version of my sentence which read; “Outside this article I can not find any other references to him.“

Your links are all dated within the last three weeks and all refer to the same article.

One of them states; "Reckoning with Germany" is a German paper, written by a German author allegedly named "Abu Assad al-Almani". How do they know he is German?

Therefore permit me to say my contention stands unless you have links to other instances of this fellow.

Next can I address to two of your statements together.

Cont...

Cont...

1. “Often laws changed to accommodate Muslims. Such niceties have never been extended to other sections of society.”
2. “You so readily cite other lone, wayward individuals, ie Jews, who have no real influence in their society … and are not relevant to this discussion”

Both are demonstrably wrong.

Possibly the most powerful argument I can find for supporting some version of Sharia law in this country is because we have seen fit to 'extend such niceties' to the Jewish community. So much so that we allow legal opinion from a Jewish body in another country to subsume Australian law.
http://www.jwire.com.au/news/london-beth-din-decides-gutnick-does-not-have-chazuka/3977

How this nation has acted toward Jewish people and their religion is vitally relevant to the question of how we treat Muslims and their religion. The claim that Judaism is not a proselytising faith so should be treated differently just doesn't cut it. As I had done earlier in this thread transposing one for the other is a legitimate and informative exercise.

I will make a concession though. The support for the privatisation of our schools, which has lead to their proliferation far exceeding other comparable Western nations, has undoubtedly dealt a blow to our capacity to manage integration of different migrant communities. Christian, Jewish and Islamic schools all disturb me. A dinner with friends revealed the story of one mother having to spend considerable time and money to become a Catholic in order to get her child enrolled in a private school of her choice.

When I visit a local state school in my area the number of different ethnic groups present playing, learning and growing together gives me a vision of what I thought this country was about. It is sad to see it being under assault by people demanding we fund their 'choices' and State governments seeking to save a buck.

Thank you, Belly: as Ayaan Hirsi Ali's article concludes:

"As the latest wave of indignation sweeps across the Muslim world, we should not be despondent. Yes, this is a setback for the Arab Spring. Yes, it is bloody, dangerous, and chaotic on the streets. Yes, innocent people are dying and their governments are powerless. But this too shall pass.

Utopian ideologies have a short lifespan. Some are bloodier than others. As long as Islamists were able to market their philosophy as the only alternative to dictatorship and foreign meddling, they were attractive to an oppressed polity. But with their election to office they will be subjected to the test of government. It is clear, as we saw in Iran in 2009 and elsewhere, that if the philosophy of the Islamists is fully and forcefully implemented, those who elected them will end up disillusioned.

The governments will begin to fail as soon as they set about implementing their philosophy: strip women of their rights; murder homosexuals; constrain the freedoms of conscience and religion of non-Muslims; hunt down dissidents; persecute religious minorities; pick fights with foreign powers - even powers, such as the US, that offered friendship. The Islamists will curtail the freedoms of those who elected them and fail to improve economic conditions.

After the disillusion and bitterness will come a painful lesson: that it is foolish to derive laws for human affairs from gods and prophets. Just like the Iranian people have begun to, the Egyptians, Tunisians, Libyans and perhaps Syrians and others will come to this realisation. In one or two or three decades we will see the masses in these countries take to the streets - and perhaps call for American help - to liberate them from the governments they elected. This process will be faster in some places than others, but in all it will be bloody and painful. If we take the long view, America and other Western countries can help make this happen in the same way we helped bring about the demise of the former Soviet Union."

[TBC]

[continued]

This amazingly brave woman continues:

"We must be patient. America needs to empower those individuals and groups who are already disenchanted with political Islam by helping find and develop an alternative. At the heart of that alternative are the ideals of the rule of law and freedom of thought, worship, and expression. For these values there can and should be no apologies, no groveling, no hesitation. It was Voltaire who said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." As Salman Rushdie discovered, as we are reminded again as the Arab street burns, that sentiment is seldom heard in our time. Once I was ready to burn The Satanic Verses. Now I know that his right to publish it was a more sacred thing than any religion."

I live in hope of a Left which can go beyond its prejudices, and have the courage to defend human rights once again. Even against ideologies which are not pro-American. It's a complex world out there. Perhaps it always has been.

Joe