*three groan men against our girl*

Sheesh Poirot, sounds like you have us all groaning :)

Perhaps one day Belly can spread his wings and fly to WA
for a holiday, then we can all have a beer...

Three dozen posts since my last offering, I'm seriously having trouble keeping up and I'm even feeling guilty about stealing time away to post this therefore apologies if it seems rushed.

Dear Danielle,

You wrote;

“You appear urbane, sophisticated and educated. Is this more apparent than real? I increasingly feel so.”

So you should. Unlike your good self I have no degree to my name, in fact I did fifth form three times and sixth form twice (failing English meant no HSC pass back then). My only saving grace is I have travelled a bit, developed a propensity to think about what I read, and love having my ideas and preconceptions challenged.

As to being sophisticated and urbane please don't be fooled, it is only through an enjoyment of word-smiths such as Conrad, Banjo and Twain that I managed to knock together a few words but the effect is often muddled and any semblance to the higher graces is purely illusionary.

I however tend to be pretty protective about what we have managed to build in this country which includes our multiculturalism and our levels of tolerance, but recognise it has not been done without some heavy work by many people. If I can manage to do my little bit here on OLO and a few other places I inhabit then all to the good.

Just as a small aside, if the US beats us to legalising gay marriage, especially after us, along with New Zealand, having lead the world on issues like voting rights for women or working folk's rights such as the 8 hour day, it will be a sad day.

As to the Middle Eastern peoples I firstly acknowledge they have been subject to the whims of others, especially Western powers for an extended period. Some claim it is the region that breeds people with violent tendencies, yet one only has to look a Europe during both of the wars to see the lie. The same might be claimed of the religions and the same answer given.

Cont...

Cont...

Some like yourself claim more specifically that intolerance and violence are innate qualities of the Muslim Arabs, but like Jayb, who includes in his list condemning Islam bombings, those in Syria which is currently mired in a civil war, you make little account of some of the dictatorial regimes that have so brutalised their peoples.

I found quite interesting the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) Peace Index results after this years self described pogrom against African migrants where Likud members stirred up a crowd which subsequently started attacking innocent Africans, destroying cars, businesses and other property.

“Most reports said the rally turned nasty after the crowd was whipped up by several racist speeches by right-wing MPs, several of them from the ruling Likud party of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. "The infiltrators are a cancer in our body," Likud MP Miri Regev told the crowd, as fellow MP Danny Danon shouted: "The infiltrators must be expelled from Israel! Expulsion now!" Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said 20 people had been arrested on suspicion of vandalising shops and attacking cars driven by Africans, but added that there were no reports of anyone being injured. The police have also extended the remand of seven Israeli minors accused of attacking African immigrants earlier this week, he said.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/tel-aviv-race-riots-shock-israel/story-e6frg6so-1226366536966

“Fifty-two percent of Jewish Israelis identify with the statement by MK Miri Regev last month that African migrants are “a cancer in the body” of the nation, and over a third condone anti-migrant violence, according to the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI) Peace Index for May 2012.”

“Only 19% of Arab respondents agreed that the migrants were “a cancer.””
http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/

Calling illegal immigrants 'infiltrators' and 'a cancer' certainly ratchets up the rhetoric.

Cont...

Cont...

Thankfully we have not seen such demonising from our own politicians but it is important that at least in this country we encourage restraint from them. I will give kudos thus far to Mr Abbott on this point.

So I'm asking the question why would Jewish Israeli's be showing two and a half times the intolerance toward African immigrants as the Arab Israelis? Why don't the figures support the argument you are making that the issue is purely with middle eastern Arabs?

I would like to leave you with a portion of president Obama's speech at the UN yesterday.

“I know there are some who ask why we don’t just ban such a video. The answer is enshrined in our laws: our Constitution protects the right to practice free speech. Here in the United States, countless publications provoke offence. Like me, the majority of Americans are Christian, and yet we do not ban blasphemy against our most sacred beliefs. Moreover, as President of our country, and Commander-in-Chief of our military, I accept that people are going to call me awful things every day, and I will always defend their right to do so. Americans have fought and died around the globe to protect the right of all people to express their views – even views that we disagree with.”

“We do so not because we support hateful speech, but because our Founders understood that without such protections, the capacity of each individual to express their own views, and practice their own faith, may be threatened. We do so because in a diverse society, efforts to restrict speech can become a tool to silence critics, or oppress minorities. We do so because given the power of faith in our lives, and the passion that religious differences can inflame, the strongest weapon against hateful speech is not repression, it is more speech – the voices of tolerance that rally against bigotry and blasphemy, and lift up the values of understanding and mutual respect.”

I hope to be counted as one of those voices.

Yabby it could happen if so you will know.
In need of a beer or two just to sort out how the Sydney riot was started by the acts of the old British Empire, America, and the Jews.
Then finding a link to the world wide ones, this lot not the many others has me baffled.
Just about got my head settled and have to confront the film, still not seen it, why bother? surely ANY RELIGION bar this one knows ignoring such things, turn the other cheek? is best.
Muslim faith seems to not have that saying, or the Golden rule, do un to others.
It reminds you not to betray other Muslims, but advises you to rip of non believers?
Could be killed for this, but a question.
Is the problem the people or the religion?
Would we live together if no belief separated us?

csteele,

Your Archilles heel is the Arab Muslim territory. Many will have noticed this. It is not rational, it is emotional at root.

Yes, Israel has problems, many of which have to be seen on context - a state at siege; others are problems - like any country. Have you seen the latest figures on anti-immigration in Britain?

Incidentally, what is the policy on immigration into Arab territory?
I understand that to gain citizenship in any territory, one has to prove relationship to the relevant tribal groups.

I believe in a two-state solution, I do not agree with settlements in Palestinian territories.

The rest of the Arab world are Judenfrei, forcibly often violently so; why shouldn't Palestinian territories enjoy the same status as its brethren.

In the Palestinian civil war, more were killed, Palestinian by Palestinian, in the first ten months, than had been killed in conflicts with Israel. Thousands upon thousands fled, or tried to flee.

If Israel is such a terrible state for Palestinians to live in, why are so many desperately trying to enter Israel? Why not an exodus instead?

Every other area that has witnessed 'persecution' of a group, has seen the group leave and not wish to return.

Thousands of Palestinians enter Israel daily to work. Why? They receive an equitable income with Israelis, including social benefits, such as medical, etc.

With the $millions, indeed $billions having been poured into Palestinian territories, why do these people want, or indeed need to work in Israel?

Yes, everyone admits that the US, and certainly colonial countries, such as Britain before it, has made mistakes, criminal mistakes. However,for whatever the reason, the US pour $billions annually into these territories, which the territories don't refuse - at any level.

You can't blame the US for everything ... I do not believe in body counts in history; I feel it is unfair, however
http://www.politicalislam.com/tears/pages/tears-of-jihad/