Dear Loudmouth,

I only raised the matter of early marriage after the matter it was posted for a second time on this thread to justify the making of the film.

My point is that it is difficult to nearly impossible to judge religious leaders from our modern perspective.

I totally reject the unspeakable horror of slavery and am deeply grateful that a small group of Quakers strove to rid the world of this scourge. Am I about to condemn Christ for his admonishing the slave to obey his master? Hardly, even though I find it a reprehensible sentiment. It was a reality of the time therefore it goes through to the keeper in my opinion. Others may well disagree. We can really only judge them by what we know of the times, how those around them acted and what was the moral standard of the society in which they dwelt.

When you say “But the fact remains that Islam is a violent, intolerant religion, with little going for it that isn't done better by other moral frameworks, Buddhism, Judaism, even to a point Christianity.”

Yet it isn't a fact and if we look at the mote in our own eyes the history of Christianity, especially in the 20th Century, has no comparison. As much as the likes of runner try to disavow how Christian Europe treated the Jewish people during WW2, how Christian Serbs slaughtered and raped tens of thousands of Bosnia Muslims, how the Rwandan Christian clergy preached hate and genocide from the pulpit while Muslims open their homes to terrified and fleeing Tutsis, the facts speak for themselves.

Perhaps it might be an idea to let them do so here.

csteel: Isabella marrying Richard II when she was six, more than half a millennia after Aisha.

I'm doing my Genealogy. You would be surprised at the amount(In Europe)of people that were married very young, both males & females. The Stewarts were very good at wife exchanging. The number of brothers & sisters & half brothers & sisters that were married. So that sort of thing wasn’t unusual. Mostly for Alliances & passing family heritage along. In the Middle East though it was because of Venereal Diseases that the men married very young girls.(virgins & clean)

So steelie what did you think of the youtube videos, or haven't you watched them yet. Do you support what they are saying?

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/its-our-shortcoming-we-have-not-really-engaged-with-these-individuals-20120918-264uf.html
Another link.
But first let us look again at the drivers for this thread.
*Our dead are in Paradise yours are in hell!*
If we said that?
Is it not pure hate and based on religion and bigotry.
We are offended by Sydney but must not ignore it has been world wide, and death and destruction along with pure hatred.
Kactuz has put the truth before us, this is an every day part of life for many, the bigotry the hate, and a privative need to place a God that is no God on a pedestal, above us all, us more than any.
The Middle ages haunts us still folk far different than us, on ourside at least ,the other? maybe still the same.
Did wrong,gee consider csteele has to hark back to then! to decry our concerns.
We in increasing numbers only look at any yesterday to confirm our fears.
REMEMBER lies are an ak47 in this community, called for in a HOLLY BOOK.
Hence the we are sorry but,but but nothing, this will increase not decrease, yes some Muslims will stand with us.
Some will in time, risk death, think about that, by leaving this twisted faith.
But a poor if at all educated enclave who hates us and every one,who regard women as property will haunt us and we must one day confront it and the lies.

It is worth remembering that the latest "riot" is far from an isolated incident:

“A riot by Muslim youths in Auburn last week was organised via Facebook, police believe. The troublemakers used the social networking site to flash up inflammatory references to police and rally their friends for a confrontation.One update identified police as ‘non-believers’ who were raiding a ‘brother's home’. More than 150 people gathered in Cumberland Rd, Auburn, on Tuesday night, forcing police to call in 100 officers, the riot squad and a helicopter.”
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/facebook-website-used-to-drum-up-auburn-rioters/story-e6freuy9-1225772429876

“Radical Islam has shown its distasteful side. The Carnita Matthews case escalated from a simple traffic fine to a public show of needless aggression.Herald Sun Digital Pass. The preposterous excuses and Pythonesque theatrics of Carnita Matthews and her very vocal supporters outside a Sydney court this week would be comic, if they weren't so threatening.”
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/we-need-to-stop-islams-ugly-voice/story-e6frfhqf-1226080251177

“Roy Yaghi, 33 and Jamie Grover, 27 were gunned down execution style as they sat in a ute parked outside what police have described as a known "drug house" at South Wentworthville on Thursday night…They were taken to Westmead Hospital in a critical condition and died soon after… riot police were called to the hospital on Friday to calm distraught family members demanding access to the victim's bodies, Mr Scipione pleaded with those in the know to break the criminal code and contact police.He described the "wall of silence" surrounding western Sydney's criminal network “
http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/story/2012/09/01/we-will-look-after-you-scipione

A Sydney man who was held down on his bed and whipped up to 40 times by strangers had recently converted to Islam and was reportedly being punished for drinking.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/intruders-whip-silverwater-man-31-for-drinking/story-e6frf7jo-1226097080261

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/hes-my-brother--why-angry-muslim-youth-are-protesting-in-sydney-20120918-264l1.html
This link, after reading it twice, tells me PC is in control of some thoughts.
It for me, without fear or favor, says our next export market, properly funded and thought out, should start with this well meaning Gentle man and those he defends.
A prime example of it was wrong now lets drop it and talk of the past.
Forget 9/11 talk of the murders you do not us.
Harsh, red neck, yes I am guilty but lets be fair dinkum these folk are unwelcome by most.

its about giving the impression..we need tougher laws
nuthin like a good riot,..to stop..ANYONE 'rioting'../yes unionists and greenies too!

just like bullies love power
lawyewrs love laws..yes sure the law say you canyt front run..but!
here is a trust..loophole..so you canm become one of them 47%..mitt rummny is talking of..

no one should be allowed to record private stuff
and put it on line..like who wants to see her majesties boobie
WE NEED TOUGH LAWS..so our delicates stay in the clossit

or about being able to mention facebook in court as a source
or trakiing flaash traiter traders..or following the money as well as the authority that released it

or about forcing us to beg more..be watched more
so ther big still get their bonus and bailout
and we swill still get.. the shaft

for stealing a loaf..in ol blarney..you get sent to the land of oz

for stealing govt own money system
you get bailout/bonjus..new trusts to hide things in

so you too can become the 47%..not paying any tax
thanks be to the family trust..let him who bear benifit..bear the burden