Paul in this matter you are not expressing your self well.
In addressing RObert you name a small minority.
One we should not ignore but not give much credence to.
A larger number are also a problem,I think on your evidence you come from that group.
One unable to see reforms are needed.
We know,if our eyes are open, and our brain, constant reform takes place.
I thought we could use this opportunity to put our plans for that in place.
A bit of leg pulling has taken place here.
I am both the guilty party, and quite serious about it.
My ideas and thoughts are near Socialist, do not faint hasbeen and Rechtub!
Queensland, under Labor Liberal and National rule did it.
After storm tempest trouble, even price crashes FARMERS got first go at council jobs.
My whole thought pattern is paid, honestly paid honestly earned work, when ever possible, not hand outs.
We are 12 months more, from an election removal of carbon tax, even under an Abbott led government, is not assured.
Just as 50 years ago some jobs we do today never existed.
And we can not avoid new work as new ways come.
We can avoid the death strangle hold public servants put on past government jobs.
We can do anything, including true worth while reform, in any thing!

Belly, good morning, here again I agree with you, welfare reform is needed. Just making cash handouts, although these payments are required, they are a band aid, a much need band aid for many, fortnight to fortnight and in some cases long term and for others short term. The government has to ensure every welfare dollar is put to the best possible use. The cycle of welfare has to be broken, that is welfare from the cradle to the grave. The cycle of family welfare has to be broken where whole families depend on welfare. this kind of welfare has to be broken.

How! The big stick, cut them off, force them to work approach has been tried and failed countless times. The answer is in education, life skills, work training and opportunity, particularly aimed at the young, to break the welfare dependent cycle. These things are not well addressed at the moment. they take time and effort. As people move off welfare and into a meaningful self relent existence, we free up more dollars for worth while long term projects, education, training etc always working to reduce the welfare dependent cycle.
What do you see as needed, to do better with welfare?

There a couple of different variants of what a lot of us would think of as fraud at play. The legal version of fraud, that can be dealt with by the law. The other is the ethical variety which is much harder to deal with, if the system is tightened up enough to stop those who play the system then we hurt those who really need help, leave it loose and some will abuse it. If we try and manage it closely then admin costs go through the roof or the personal prejudices of those reviewing cases sneak in.

I don't know that there are any easy answers to some parts of the issue.

R0bert

Belly, poor parenting is the cause of most of the welfare that is wasted and, although it may not be considered fraud, it actually is, as a portion of that $5 wasted on the cigs was indeed intended to buy that ice-cream.

You see, parents, not kids, are entrusted with the sensible distribution of the kids welfare.

You are also failing to acknowledge the fact that ALL WELFARE is a 'gift' not a given right.

If one dollar is wasted, then that is one dollar too much.

This is why a debit card is needed, not just for single mums, not just for new start allowance, all welfare payments.

If one wishes to buy cigs, grog, or gamble, do it THEIR MONEY not ours.

Remember, welfare is a 'hand up', not a 'hand out' to be wasted by some.

As for welfare, about 42% who work, and all that dont are on welfare.

So the potential waste is huge.

If you don't believe me, just park yourself outside the local newsagent when there is a mega Loto draw on.

Then you will see where a lot of the kids food money goes, chassing that elusive dream.

How about, instead of trying to continually put me down, with your little mi d games you play, how about you explain to me how a debit card won't help welfare fraud.

It won't stop it, but it will help, as one can't buy drugs with a debit card.

*RehTub*

I think that there are a couple of points that you need to consider:

1. You appear to be mixing together welfare misuse and fraud. They are two very different things.

2. As already stated, Centrelink is as savage as a junk yard dog. They also have Aust Feds posted with them and the ever growing data matching systems to discover fraud such as multiple identities and undeclared cash payments for casual work. They have no problems for example opening up people's bank accounts and having a good old look, whether people want this or whether they even know, and often times, unless there is a concurrent legal action, often people don't even know that they have been ivestigated. Thus, you ought not be concerned that criminality is not being addressed in this area much as it is being addressed across the board.

3. What you appear to be attacking is what you consider to be welfare misuse and mismanagement AND you propose a blanket solution of quarantining all payments, via debit cards and micro-management. I actually agree with you to a limited extent however, I think that what this matter turns on is "legal capacity." That is to say, people of legal capacity have the right to manage their own affairs, and this in reality is expected in this society. I would agree that there are grounds to limit or withdraw legal capacity from individuals. This could be say on health grounds, such as dementia or other illness, or could be because of a demonstrated lack of willingness to provide appropriately for their own medical needs or the needs of their children. In these instances, I would agree that limiting legal capacity, enforcing education programs and regulation via debit cards could be appropriate. This could also include an unwillingness of individuals to work.

4. As said though, I am not in favor of discrimination or the creation of a second class work force, which is to say that all people must be provided equivalent pay for a fair day's work.

t.b.c.

5. Re: another comment, all payments including D.S.P. are subject to regular and ongoing review, and snap inspections are common place. In the case of the D.S.P. there needs to an exhaustive medical examination and the individual needs to be certified to be unable to do anymore than a maximum of 15hrs a week from memory and all bar the most extreme cases are streamed into education and training programs.

6. The reality is is that successive guvments have not created a legislative/economic system that generates sufficient living wage jobs, and that is the primary reason for un and underemployment. In turn, the reason for that is that the the parasites at the top of the chain sucking on the tax payers purse are draining the system beyond its means, and why I advocate for giving them all a serious haircut. You would do well to consider that amongst the ranks of the guvment employees are also druggies, substance abusers and people who neglect or abuse their children.

7. I am surprised that you would advocate for middle class welfare, as I personally would take the axe to that straight out and use it to bolster the base.