Paul! you know better than that!
America may how ever be our future, both greatness and the opposite live in that country.
The street people, have you any idea how many are ex service men and women?
The hungry and down trodden are, in my view evil.
But I know current Australians, bar a few, would never except it here.
I do not want to cut the over all budget for welfare, in fact increase it IF POSSIBLE.
Will you admit majority's should direct changes?
I have asked this question in threads here.
Not the threads titles but my intentions.
DRUGS can we do better in both law enforcement and distribution.
Education do we need to ask why some can not read or write.
Here can we do better with welfare?
To me of first order Aboriginal living standards in SOME parts of Australia, law and order problems and total lack of education for some.
Every subject has to confront the no change mobs.
From the bleeding heart blind left.
T slightly or totally bigoted right.
is progress possible?
How did you find support for Americas failure to care for its own in my words?
Paul I would truly starve, die, without remorse, rather than see any human go hungry.

Belly you ask: "How did you find support for Americas failure to care for its own in my words?"
What I said was "I would hope you (Belly) are not proposing a US type model (welfare system) as ideal for Australia." How is that suggesting you support the US system of welfare.

You say: "The hungry and down trodden are, in my view (Belly's view) evil." What a strange thing to say. Can I assume you believe the well fed and uplifted are good?

You say "DRUGS can we do better in both law enforcement and distribution."
I believe the crooks do a very good job with (drug) distribution now, so I don't think the rest of society (we) should get involved in drug distribution at this stage.

You say "I (Belly) would truly starve, die, without remorse, rather than see any human go hungry. But are that not the "evil" people?

Paul 1405,

I believe Belly may have meant that in his view the fact that the U.S. system allows their predicament to exist is "evil"....not the hungry and downtrodden themselves. I'm assuming he didn't put it very well.

Belly?

Poirot,

Your interpretation was the same as mine from the start. I could not resist the opp to stick it up my old Labor alley, Belly with his verbal slip. Sorry Belly I apologise unequivocally.

Thanks Poirot thanks Paul 1405.
Well I did it, bit down hard on that Paul, nearly walked out.
I always get in trouble with my English and grammar.
Remember my back ground.
But yes it is evil, purely evil, that America a country based on so much good, lets its poor go hungry.
It concerns me frightens me, how did this great country, so proud of its being the new home for the poor and down trodden, turn in to the one we some times see today.
Claims universal health care is communism!
We see wishes we work longer, we will, GST is raised, one day it will be.
I plead for welfare reform, one day we will get a version not unlike Americas.
See us left of center people, get in the way of reform as we squabble about fairness and equity, seemingly unaware our opponents care little for both.
Profit and wealth drives them.
Paul I can see a difference in Aussie stirring and taunting, can you?
Never mind mate shame we could not have faced this subject from the point of view if we do not fix it conservatives fix will frighten us all.

Belly, A few thing about America which I believe has contributed to how the US treats welfare. Although Americans like to see themselves as the 'home of democracy' it is not quite as clear cut as that. Study their history of expansion and servitude. The elite in American society have always commanded the real power. Americans through their interpretation of religion which is very much a 19th century protestant type interpretation. Protestantism very much holds that being poor is some how ones own fault, the will of god. religion plays a far bigger part in American society than it does in ours, again the elite have controlled religion for their own self interest. making it dove tail into capitalism all so nicely. Add to this the notion that government intervention is socialism, which leads to communism, and the American elite rightly see communism as the ultimate threat to their position, hence the paranoia and hatred by Americans of communism. Now you have my explanation why welfare in America is as it is.