Goodonya! Paul 1405!
Using my jab against me, another way of getting your own back is peeing in to the wind.
I am on record time and again, saying my party must never stop improving or it dies.
Not a Queenslander I truly do not know just how things are up their.
I apart from an intense dislike of Newman, have little faith in our leader.
We appear to be in for a bashing.
Do you know that was the out come in my state, and that I held/hold the view it was a needed out come.
From good kicking comes healing.
Some times only defeat leads to change.
I refrain from counter punching your greens, in debate if your opponent is better at defaming his.her side stand back and watch.
Tell me why you pick NAZI before Christian.

Belly, The vast majority of the faithful are followers, their only sin is they are blinked and easily led, such people are not free thinkers but rely on a small dominant clique within the religion to preach the word of god to them. As for the use of national socialism, Yuyutsu was trying to make a point that whilst religion was good it was individuals within religion that were bad this is what Yuyutau wrote:
"In short, no wonder you have such hateful views on religion because your idea of religion has nothing to do with religion and much to do with humans abusing the name of religion for their own perverse desires."
My argument is regardless of any underlying good that may be perceived to exist within religion if the individuals that make up religion are bad then religion itself is bad. Humanity can exist without religion, but religion can not exist without humanity. I said that line of argument was nonsense. I wrote:
"In short, no wonder you have such hateful views on national socialism because your idea of national socialism has nothing to do with national socialism and much to do with humans abusing the name of national socialism for their own perverse desires.
My point being you can justify any ideology be it religion, national socialism etc as being good by divorcing the actions of those contained within the ideology from the ideology itself. Of course I do not support national socialism, I believe any ideology is only as good as its devotees. In most religions those that control the religion are perceived by me as being bad, that is not say all their actions are bad or all devotees are bad, that in itself makes religion bad for me.

Paul 1405 I think I always understood what you wanted to say.
But would never use an evil such as Nazi for a prop.
Largely the terms you use can be put to any political party by its opponents.
Communism and what ever form in slave nations like North Korea for sure.
While you are free to say as you wish, no one yet has told me why this threads subject took place.
It has nothing to do with liking or hating beleiving in religion.
Is this single act to become the norm? will it include one day belief in political party's?
Why and what next.

Belly as one opposed to religions per se I did not see those women wearing a cross as being the problem I believe the problems the world faces from religions goes much deeper than cross wearing by a couple of old women.
It is interesting to me that we will attack and kill the 'innocent' within a ideology or state on the grounds they are part of the ideology even if they have no say or input of any kind in the determining action of the ideology. We felt fully justified in killing innocent Iraqi's because of the actions of the Iraq leadership. The average Iraqi had no control or say in opposing Saddam Hussein, yet we felt fully justified in making them pay as well. It would seem retribution is allowed even on the benign members of an ideology.

In a post above Paul you asked me when I became left of center.
Mate that last post reminds me of your lefts true position, stuck up to your bottom in a mud that will not let you see.
This thread is about personal freedom.
It is about the right to free speech, freedom to believe, anything.
I am a nonbeliever, you know that.
But too I do not believe in rich mens clubs bending to Royalty, Communism.
I do not believe in extremist right wing politics not in your lost tribes view Socialism is good and we should have it forced down out throats even if we do not want it.
I understand religions, I oppose the power they generate and that is it.
But too know the good within every one of them.
Paul I will question forever ANY human rights being taken away.
Yes Iraq Against and, maybe soon Iran, North Korea , are bad , but you highlight in the blindest way, Americas bad out comes.
And let the murders of the other side slip away.
The very left has forgotten its birth, it reason to exist, long ago.
About the time London wharf workers went on go slows as they thought Russia was being ignored in ww2.

The very left hasn't forgotton its origins Belly. A lot of afficionados of the parody of the left that has joined in collaboration with oppression have forgotton the origins of socialism, much as the afficionados of christianity have lost touch with the teachings of Jesus.

The Russian revolution died with the massacre of the Kronstadt sailors by Trotsky's forces. The Kronstadt revolutionaries were upholding the ideas of genuine workers' and peasants' control of their lives and means, against the growing repression of the Bolsheviks. The spanish revolution was crushed by the communist party's presentation of the anarchists as counter-revolutionary because they didn't support putting aside the growing new society to please russia's international agenda.

The first socialist international in 1844 began as a revolutionary alliance for overthrowing capitalism through workers' struggle, and included both Marxists and Anarchists. It was the Marxists who chose to pursue their aims through state mechanisms, and so gradually became subject to these mechanisms. There are huge parallels between the dilution of the aims of organisations of christians and those of socialists, as soon as they accepted the rules of states rather than sticking to their principles.