Dear Antiseptic,

The art of reasoned, intelligent argument is a skill
not easily acquired. Arguments are something we all
confront at some time and it is beneficial to follow
a few steps to emerge the victor. No matter how petty
the gripe it is possilbe to give the impression of
being the superior debater.

The first point is always to argue in a logical manner.
Sound reasoning will conquer unreasonable generalisations
every time. For instance if arguing about bullying don't
say, " all victims are liars," or "the problem doesn't exist," or use derogatory terms like - "pansies," that makes you
appear to be arguing on an emotional level - not a mature
intelligent one. A more effective approach would be a
subtle hint that some victims may sometimes abuse the system. This
response has more chance of winning you points.

I won't go into all the details here but it is imperative to
always know your topic. Do your research from more than one
source and above all else do quote statistics (real or
imagined) this gives the element of authenticity to your
opinions.

The final point is to at all times remain calm. Don't stoop to
personal insults. Tempting as it may be. This makes you appear irrational. And appear as a heavy-handed creep - ending up on someone's - "to ignore list." No likes
or supports an abusive, illogical or weak debater. Argue to win.
Then you'll have better success in your future discussions and you will be taken more seriously.

Good Luck!

Lexi <"This makes you appear irrational. And appear as a heavy-handed creep - ending up on someone's - "to ignore list." "

Lol Lexi :)

I admire your tenacity when dealing with 'creeps'.
I doubt anyone ever effectively bullied you anywhere!

I, for one, will take note of your suggestions for rational discussions or arguments.

Cheers,
Suze.

There are two separate issues emerging here.

The first in the idea that awareness campaigns (and incidents highlighted in the media, some involving suicide) may lead to an over-reporting under the banner of bullying. If this is Antiseptic's concern I am not sure he need stress too much. Clearly the bodies that manage these complaints are making draw-the-line judgements based on those figures quoted above.

While there is an argument that some level of auto-suggestion may lead to over-reporting, it does not diminish the need for appropriate action for legitimate and serious complaints. There is not much one can do if the bully is the owner, best just to leave, however in larger organisations it is not satisfactory for the bullies just to continue to reap their havoc on others.

Up until recently bullying was largely ignored in the media. Prior to that, smarter organisations realised serious bullying as ultimately impacting on profits and efficiencies. Bullying is not conducive to good business on any level.

Bullying is not the boss just asking you to do something even if the request was a bit terse. Poor social skills does not necessarily a bully make. Most bullies suffer from an inferiority or inferiority/superiority complex and this can often be offset by approaching those sort of people in a non-threatening way or showing that their manner is not acceptable in your own responses depending on the situation. That is not the same as excusing woeful behaviour, but it is a self-help approach.

Certainly the time and money spent on these cases should be dedicated to the serious incidents.

There is much talk of resilience these days but not much evidence of it - maybe that is why there is so much talk about it - people also need to toughen up a bit and employ skills in dealing with more difficult people. They are everywhere. Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't - that is life but bullying should not be tolerated. Let's face it most people, if they are honest, know exactly what bullying is and what it is not.

Speaking of bullying- this is a perfect example and I do not see any reason Antiseptic should be referred to in such manner.
Lol Lexi :)

*I admire your tenacity when dealing with 'creeps'.*suzeonline

However, I do expect him to leave the threat- if it upsets him, turn the TV off etc if there is something upsetting.

Dear Lexi,

6 billion is a lot & unions do encourage it. Jobs for the team.

May I ask you a question-

You own a law firm- and things are pretty quiet ok.

Your struggling to keep jobs for your staff because your really soft and dont want to put anybody off.

You have 3 girls sitting reading books- You ask them to from now on pls vac your own office and empty the waste basket.

They say NO! its not in our work description. Your angry and you dont like the attitude. You reply I am paying you $$ an hour and your not working anyyway-- so pls do as I ask

She says no- rushes off to complain about be bullied.

What do you feel about a position such as that ?
Cheers Lexi

Here is another one Lexi

Just as I was writing to you I heard the news-

A woman is suing her boss because she hurt herself on a business trip while having sex. The boss paid wages + accommodation for her to do her job. While she was away she met up with a male person and took him into the accommodation her boss paid for her. She was injured during the course of performing sex. Now shes suing her boss.

I fully agree a real bully should be got rid of but you see often its the staff bullying the boss as well.

Goodnight.

Pelican:"Clearly the bodies that manage these complaints are making draw-the-line judgements based on those figures quoted above."

Yes, they are, but at 6000 complaints annually they are dealing with120 such baseless complaints a week. How much wasted time and effort is going intopandering to spoilt brats who expect the boss to bend over backwards to be nice and don't want to take any responsibility for their own behaviour?

Pelican:"While there is an argument that some level of auto-suggestion may lead to over-reporting,"

6000 complaints made, only 60 worth even investigating. I think the case for over-reporting is about as rock-solid as it is possible to be.

All the rest is baseless assertions. How do you know what sort of personality a "bully" may have? I suggest to you that under the pressure of dealines and so on many people become stressed and lose the social niceties. Normal people, normal behaviour. sometimes it is actually important that something happens right now, as unimaginable as that is for some here (and no, I'm not referring to you Pelican, you've explained your own background extensively) and when that happens words get short sometimes.

The site that Lexi gave is an absolute classic of victimologist propaganda, the like of which I've rarely seen. I'll do a couple of extracts for the amusement of all over the next couple of posts.

Pelican:"There is much talk of resilience these days but not much evidence of it "

And you've nailed it. That was the point of my original post, but the thread has been sidetracked by those desperate to be victims, proving the point, I think.

As Kerryanne points out too, the "mobbing" behaviour that the "gang of three" so often indulge in is classic bullying and I reckon any workoplace any of them worked in would be toxic: full of snide remarks and backbiting and shifting alliances. Just like my daughter's grade 10 class really.

Kerryanne, your example is far too sensible, which measn it'll be ignored.