Dear Antiseptic,

This discussion has been a real eye-opener.
Thanks for your thoughts on the subject.
See you on another thread.

Ah Lexi, I thought you were more intellectually honest. No matter.

Dear Anti,

Sorry to disappoint.
I'm just tired.
Perhaps in the next discussion
I'll be more up to jousting with you.

For now however, all I want is to relax
by an open fire.

Cheers.

RE: Post by Antiseptic, Thursday, 28-July-2011 7:54:57 and Pelican, Thursday, 28-July-2011 12:40:44

Antiseptic
You raised various points about bullying…valid and otherwise; while showing concern for promulgation of "false perceptions…". Perhaps a post is warranted, if for no other reason than "raising awareness", which of course – can only be achieved through negating ignorance.

Pelican's assumption about 'fear' is correct. People don’t speak up about workplace bullying for various reasons – potential job loss; fear of becoming the next 'target'; about not obtaining another job; the financial security and well-being of their families...and the list goes on. Genuine targets of an ongoing workplace bully 'attack' regularly find walls of silence, denial, and counter-attack. Anxiety, and reactive depression often result when faced with such toxic workplaces. And there's a plethora of research to support this if you feel inclined to look. Sometimes, all these people require is 'validation'. That it’s not their imagination; that people they've worked alongside for years will suddenly fall silent when their support is needed most; that there’s 'hope', 'understanding' and 'empathy' when their current view of the world reflects otherwise. When it’s 'safe' to speak about their experiences – some may even participate in surveys to add greater understanding to this global phenomenon, but many won't –because these experiences are too painful to revisit.

It's very easy for someone to attack, particularly when there’s no fear of being rebuked – simply because the target is out of earshot/range/sight. This, unfortunately, is the primary MO of a 'bully', in addition to false claims/hidden agenda's/dissemination of 'untruths’…whether through supposition or malicious intent. Where there’s a ‘lack’ of ‘respect’ you’ll find bullying; but few are willing to put a name to bullying when they see it, Antiseptic. And while there may be frivolous claims – that’s precisely why advocacy/awareness websites exist – to reveal what is, and what isn’t – workplace bullying. 95% of Know Bull’s work is ‘behind the scenes’ –with (Australian and International) organizations and government departments (even some mentioned throughout your posts) to remedy workplace bullying…and are very effective at what they do. Suggestion: bone-up on ‘libel’.

know bull:"Suggestion:bone up on libel"

Suggestion: blow it out ya bum! Nice attempt at bullying though. Perhaps I should complain to Worksafe?

I'm afraid I'm not convinced, but thanks for the response. As I think has been made clear by the Worksafe Victoria figures, your organisation is very much part of the problem.

While bullying unquestionably exists it is at a much smaller rate than you and your fellow "awareness raisers" would have us believe. As a result, there is a massive over-reporting to the watchdog - around 99% over-reporting. As a result, genuine bullying victims are lost in the crowd.

If you are going to undertake a task, it seems to me there are a couple of simple questions to ask:
1. What am I trying to achieve?
1. Does it need doing?
2. What are the costs/benefits?

I suggest to you that there seems little interest among "advocacy" groups generally in asking these questions. Having hitched one's wagon to a particular donkey, the ride commences with no clear idea of which direction the animal is taking one. Every direction is "forward": it's defined that way.

Further, I suggest to you that by "raising awareness" you are creating a problem where there was none. You have, in common with your fellow-travellers in the "advocacy industry", broadened definitions willy-nilly and created an expectation that is both unreasonable and unattainable for most people. By ignoring the personal factors that may lead to a "victim" identifying that way (poor work performance/poor interpersonal skills/poor attachment to the job being potential causes, not just outcomes) you creat ea skewed and misleading impression of both the problem and the nature of the solution.

In private enterprise there is no incentive to bully. It leads to poor outcomes. However, there may well be significant reason for pressure to be applied to individuals to lift their game in various ways. You define this as bullying. I say that definition is first-class rubbish.

>> Suggestion: blow it out ya bum! <<
Posted by Antiseptic, Tuesday, 16 August 2011 2:41:44 AM

Antiseptic has missed a glittering career in Human Resources with the aptitude he displays.

Such is his response to Know-Bull, an unsubstantiated rant to a reasonable and well-presented post. Beginning with an ad hominem and proceeding to claims such as:

>> In private enterprise there is no incentive to bully. It leads to poor outcomes. <<

Bullying does occur in private organisations - leading to loss of productivity as well as ruined careers, as many have already made quite clear. Another unsubstantiated claim.

However, I must thank Antiseptic for demonstrating on this forum how bullying works and how often bullies will claim innocence, even to claiming to be victims themselves:

>> Nice attempt at bullying though. Perhaps I should complain to Worksafe? <<

Very educational and informative, that a reasonable post as Know-Bull's should elicit such an excessive reaction.

Regards