*Wrong they are refusing to stun!*

Nonsense. Companies like Elders run their own abattoirs in
Indonesia, all stunned. There are a number of them.

But you did not even bother to read the Grandin website. Or you
would know that her keypoint is about restraint and how it is done.
Having animals dangling on the chain, stunned but not dead, is
hardly a great way of being humane for instance. She also
acknowledges that Kosher is all about doing it right and there
are far worse systems in place, as animals hardly move when its
done right. You clearly don't even know what Grandin is on about.

What it comes down to is that neither you nor AA really know much
about all this. Go and inform yourself.

Yabby,
This thread is about ritual slaughter in Australia & RSPCA attempts to ban it & quite rightfully so.

I dont recall you answering the question do you Yabby agree there is no place for ritual slaughter in Australia?

You never fail to I amuse in a sad way. Now an authority on Halal* accreditation's. When i posted TempleG in prior posts you poo hood me.
That said, you will not succeed in diverting this thread away from the serious problem we have in Australia.

There is NO place for ritual slaughter in Australia end of story.

We are in fact making progress. We both agree on TempleG methods & that there is no place in Australia for ritual slaughter.
Some of Those Halal accreditation's FYI are *not in keeping with with ours. & you know there are 700 plants there MOST like we saw on 4 corners. Your MLA have upset them *again by not going through Halal committees .
Thats why they left your WA Minister sitting in a room nobody would take him to a plant.
Same as Ludwig misadventure by MLA again.
I am not the person who does the accreditation's or writes them. I told u many times they AGREE with TempleG. Ours will be all released at the inquiry - nice try.

With proper handling, & transport we were the ''only ones to suggest Indonesia & Malaysia were to be made Halal hubs of the world in a joint venture with Australia.
The smart@ interference - Malaysia are now doing something with Pakistan instead.In fact thats been happening since last year.Indonesia informed they were cutting cut back 75% before 4 corners fyi.
If the industry wants to sell your meat it was be most wise to target the Halal market. can be done by way of joint effort- we bring in investors and the industry work to establish areas & perhaps MLA could promote it given u said thats all they do.

Slaughter in Oz Stun& ship out
Not rocket science

Gertrude, the Indonesians are upset with Ludwig, because in Asian
culture there is a thing called losing face. Ludwig never had the
manners to ring his Indonesian counterpart, before announcing a
decision which affected their food security. Australian arrogance.
It had nothing to do with your claim about accreditation.

I have no view on ritual slaughter, because the science is not clear.
I have seen no measurements on endorphins released at the time,
which would clarify the issue. Humane slaughter involves many
things, most of which you seem to ignore. So its not black and white
as you claim.

You are telling fibs about Temple Grandin. Most people who work
with stock have heard of low stress stock handling. Given my interest
in neuroscience and livestock, its been a hobby of mine for years.
Temple Grandin in well known in the field, not just helping design
facilities for meatworks.

700 abattoirs in Indonesia has nothing to do with it, as the industry
has agreed to close supply chains. So in total maybe 30 abattoirs
will be processing Australian cattle in the future. Those like
the Elders facility are ready to go, but it remains to be seen if
Indonesia still wants them. If they start coming in from India
and elsewhere, we could well land up with foot and mouth on our
doorstep. The law of unintended consequences is never far away.

Halal Certification Authority - Australia
(
Email:
PRESS RELEASE
This Authority hereby condemns Majlis Ulama Indonesia (MUI) in the name of Islam for the heinous, disgusting and un-Islamic treatment meted to animals in slaughter houses under its watch.
This Authority has come to the conclusion that Handlers and Slaughtermen in Indonesia have no idea about Islamic rules on animal welfare and treatment. Also the Slaughtermen seen on the ABC report of 30/05/11 seem to either be oblivious about the rules of Halal slaughter or choose to ignore them.
This Authority would like to remind MUI that the following acts are forbidden in Islam:
 Hitting animals on the face or head
 Torturing animals with water or other means
 Dragging animals on concrete floors
 Slashing tendons or breaking tails while animals are alive
 Poking, gouging or kicking animals
 Letting one animal see another being slaughtered
 Letting animals see blood
 Slaughtering animals using sawing action
 Using a blunt or inadequate knife to slaughter animals
Animals in Australia are temporarily immobilised (stunned) prior to Halal slaughter with the knowledge and acceptance of all religious as well as governments in importing Muslim countries including Indonesia. Therefore Indonesia is strongly advised to stop the hypocrisy and copy Australia.
MUI Executives should stop gallivanting around the world to primarily enrich themselves and to extract funds from Western Halal Certifiers for their organisation. Instead they should stay home to put their own house in order.
For and on behalf of
Halal Certification Authority Australia
Mohamed El-Mouelhy
Chairman
Sydney 02/06/11

Press Release

The Australian Federation of Islamic Societies (AFIS HKM) ANIMAL WELFARE ORGANIZATION strongly oppose the export of live cattle abroad and “support the RSPCA process of stunning the cattle and all Animals before halal or non-halal slaughtering. The process of stunning should be applied to the animal while it is standing on its feet. The intensity of stunning should be such that if the animal is left un-slaughtered it should be able to get up and walk away.
In order to minimize the level of stress and anxiety to the cattle it is imperative that when an animal is being slaughtered the other animals should be isolated and kept away.
Stunning is the most humane way of making the animals unconscious before slaughtering and it ensures that they suffer the least pain.
This method of stunning complies with the States and Federal legislation's.
Australian Federation of Islamic Societies (AFIS) is due to open in six weeks.
,Dr Ameer Ali- Former advisor to the Howard Government on Islamic affairs
1. Dr Munir Hussain-10 years experience with AFIC and 11 years in SICHMA on Halal products
Wendy Lewthwaite

There was two types of stun guns. one had a ball head, not unlike a ball pein hammer, they were not a great success on mature animals which may have a skull thickness of 50 mm. This type of gun was discontinued.
The other was a parallel bolt about 125mm in length and 10mm diameter.
This bolt would pierce the skull and brain to it,s full 125mm depth and retract before the animal collapsed.
The brain of the animal is polvurized on impact. There is no recovery from the bolt gun, the animal is brain-dead.
Many people would be surprised where a cows brain is. If you draw a line from the base of the left horn to the middle of the right eye, and the same from the other side, where these lines intersect is the center of the brain.
So hitting a cow on the head will do nothing but hurt the animal.