Ammonite, I applaud your optimism. I agree that in time perhaps better solutions can be reached. The proposal about expanding the operation of the camel processing works however fails to address the issue of what to do with the meat. Markets do not change overnight, whether we want them to or not. At the moment the market that these cattle have been provided to demands live animals slaughtered locally. However much we might want that to be different, shipping in meat slaughtered in Australia to most of these areas previously serviced by live exports is not going to work quickly. By the time new markets have been found, the problem with the slaughtering practices will have been able to have been addressed. Its a feel-good solution and I can understand why it appeals, but the practicality is limited. I have clients trying to source export markets (not for livestock), and it will take two years to develop and risk-assess a target market and start testing it. It wont take that long to fix the current problem. I guess that's what frustrates me about the situation.

fhttp://justgroundsonline.com/forum/topics/halal-kind-meats-buying-direct?commentId=3535428%3AComment%3A224428&xg_source=msg_com_forum
CG said

Kerryanne, this thread had nothing to do with halal - its about making sure the other side of the story is heard.

CG For anybody to say( and I remind you of the title of this thread)

**Australian influence on abattoir practices in Indonesia**
this has nothing to do with Halal certification is seriously out of touch with reality. Indonesia is a Muslim country and Halal certification and Australian influence on abattoir in Indonesia has a lot to do with it. As of the 21/6/2011 that bar got got raised.

I know you have no idea of what I am talking about but the others DO. I want to make it really clear to you that I do not want to waste my time talking with you. We are very busy people and truth is I post here sometimes to let other informed people know how we are supporting RSPCA AA and many others from our side. I find it particularly offensive for a women ( if you are) to support such an evil trade.It really turns my stomach. So you can write whatever rude abusive comments you wish but know i wont read anything you write.
Your disgusting support for Wellards Braithwaite is enough for me.
Who btw hasn't had the guts to contact us.

kerryanne, I know that logic and you are not close friends, however surely you can see that the issue is not halal, it is the method of slaughter. I repeat Australian abbatoirs manage halal slaughter humanely, and there is no reason why Indonesia cannot as well. In fact the best way we have of influencing them to change (as has been happening)is to be involved and supportive. If you cannot see that then I am afraid that you have another agenda that you are trying to push.

Whether I am a woman or not should have no influence over whether I support a particular trade or industry - havent you heard of the concept of equality between the sexes?? I am a realist and a pragmatist. People want to eat meat (our biology actually demands it), Australia can supply a need to another part of the world, we dont like the way we treat the animals we send them, we do what we can to change that. Its really quite simple concept. Anyone who supports Australia withdrawing from the trade cant claim to be concerned about animal welfare - as others have pointed out on this and other thread, the treatment in question will continue if we have nothing to do with it, its just animals from other countries. However for a lot of armchair activists, this is either perfectly acceptable or their logic is seriously lacking to the point where they cannot foresee consequences.

Country Gal

Thank you!

I felt like I was stuck in the mud with MY wheels spinning given Yabby's selective reading of my posts.

Good to know you are out there - I wish we had more farmers posting for a wider range of views.

Australia is being a tad hypocritical with its attitude towards Indonesia. Many years ago I recall sitting on the fence of a corral while calves were being castrated - no time for anaesthetic, their testicles were swiftly sliced off. Their mothers all stood outside the corral mooing and keening - like any mother would. One young calf who was clearly older than the others (more bullish) was free to go - I swear he swaggered around the yard, he knew he had escaped something.

Farming is tough, but we ARE making changes as we find better ways to handle livestock. However, I do not share your view of Yabby, seeing him as part of the problem rather than the solution.

I am unlikely to change my opinion of you, Yabby, while you persist with your completely uncalled for insults.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/ritual-slaughter-without-stunning-raises-domestic-cruelty-concerns-20110621-1gdlk.html

There we go, like magic this turns up today in the SMH. 12 abattoirs
in Australia don't stun. That was my point.

Ammonite, I really don't give a stuff as to your opinion of me.
I am not here to win your brownie points. I make points of reason,
which is what good debate is all about. The rest simply does not
matter.

Hi Dickybird,
I totally agree with your comments on live export and the recent abbatoir practices in Indonesia. The "armchair" experts will always
express a simplistic solution to these problems without pause for thought towards the outcome, which in this case has been disastrous.
I too cannot bear cruelty to any animal, but it is not for me to 'step in' on 'other cultural slaughtering', perhaps a stronger surveillance on abbatoir practices might be deemed appropriate.
Noisy Scrub Bird.