Browyn writes

'Hopefully, those here whose irrational fears are driving them toward hate can read and learn.'

I would actually hope that those who deny the ugliness of Sharia law, circumcism of young girls, polygamy, the raping of 'meat' the planned attacks on Australian bases, the forming of ghettos would come out of denial. Then again these things a a 'small' price to pay in order to pretend to tolerate the intolerable.

Saying that multiculturalism (MC) is all about tolerance is like saying cigarette smoking is all about stress reduction.

Reading some of the defenders posts it’s pretty clear they have little real idea of what MC entails.

Bronwyn says : “ Multiculturalism… allows immigrants to value their original culture or heritage AS WELL AS that of their newly adopted countries”
No--there is no “AS WELL AS “ in MC theology ; you can simply transplant your little ghetto hollus-bollus from Cairo to Sydney –It’d be in keeping with good MC.

I'll concede that up till now most immigrants have in time tended to blend into an evolving OZ culture. But that was before satellite dishes and the internet provided 24/7 infusions from the old country . And it has been more a function of our economic well being than anything to do with MC.

Bronwyn again:“ Surely we are big enough and gracious enough to allow immigrants to retain some of their own cultural practices which, especially in the early days of their relocation”
No—MC doesn’t talk about “some of their …practices… in the early days” Govts have committed to funding it indefinitely.

And this from the same poster : “ AS WELL AS that of their newly adopted countries, which, by reason of them having emigrated in the first place, they obviously respect and admire.”
Is equally suss, when you see increasingly frequent happenings like the following (either in OZ or other MC experimenter-nations)
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-army-base-suicide-strike-was-imminent/story-e6freuy9-1225757788303

Being opposed to MC doesn’t necessarily mean you’re anti-foreign (or as Bronwyn politely puts it --xenophobic ). To use a litmus dear the hearts of MC faithful – you may still visit ethnic restaurants 3-4 times a week or the French or Italian film festivals ---rather, It often means you believe the time and money being pumped into MC could be better utilised elsewhere.

Peter Hume encapsulates it well:
“Do they need to have a policy on it? Why can't they just not have a policy? Abolish all laws, bureaucracies and policies to do with multi-culturalism.”

NEVER forget this issue is not just red necks, it is not just the right,not just anything.
IF today we voted on this issue numbers would stun some.
The center, from both sides,is concerned.
Lexi/Bronwyn with respect, I for both of you, take this on board.
Not culture but one religion that is a culture and a political force,that has the power with numbers under 2% to tell us Christmas offends them!
I take the thought I am red neck in some minds but tell me,on what evidence was Cronulla a one sided shameful event.
What bought it on, some saw those young people much alike those in Egypt this month.
I predict we will have to lose this thread down,because we're not able in this country to have a say about this if we get too near our true feelings.
Do not Bronwyn use the freedom of speech we have so far, to denigrate the majority of us.
Let no one say we are racist but ignore our concerns we are an experiment bound for failure and trouble,an at atempt to breed hate out of humanity.
And for those like me,concerned about all reildgions ,remember we have the same rights as any religion to our thoughts.
This issue unites not divides, this issue is growing and world wide.

Dear Suz.... I was browsing replies and thinking about who to respond to..then..I saw YOURS :) zoooooommmmmm.... went the 'target acquisition' module of my weapons systems.

You highlight the very point I was making. "Aboriginal" yep.. you got it.

Here's the thing. If we don't recognize how WE (our ancestors) acted towards the original culture here.. then we just don't get human nature.

"Recognition" is one thing.. LEARNING from it is another. What do we learn from our own history? verrrrrrry simple.... if not checked... new people/cultures will inevitably use their numbers and power to overcome/demolish/change/alter the culture into which they have come.

So.. well you may thank me for advocating Aboriginal rights.. as I also thank you for proving my point :)

BRONWYN.. a very warm (if disagreeable) welcome back!

//Surely we are big enough and gracious enough to allow immigrants to retain some of their own cultural practices which, especially in the early days of their relocation, still hold personal significance and often give much-needed reassurance to them.//

Err...in an ideal world with perfect humans... yes yes yes.. no drama.. what you describe is 'tolerance'. In fact I'm not aware of the 'anti mc' mob seeking to extinguish all remnants of original culture in newcomers.

HOWWWWEVER...when you see examples of the tendency of SOME "newcomers" to assert unlawful practices on us in the name of that 're-assuring' original culture... we stand firm *no*.

Polygamy.. good ol Keysar Trad http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/news/protect-polygamy-for-women/story-e6frf00r-1111116729230

Victoria, Australia, Dec. 06, 2007
Satnam Singh

Australia's Victorian State parliamentary committee has given the green light to carry small kirpan- a small, curved ornamental steel dagger to school by sikh students for religious reasons. BUT this plan or move has outraged principals and teachers.

ERRRRR..... "outraged?" ...*no kidding* :)

Just tell us you oppose such things and we are all on the same page.

Xenophobia? hardly.

Aaah Bronny :) nothing like a little lefty pink spin and Anti-Capitalist rant there :)

//Multiculturalism hasn't 'failed'. Granted, there are problems, but these are as much a result of population pressures and the growing divide between the haves and the have-nots as they are a result of multiculturalism itself.//

Hmmm "Haves" and "Have-nots" eh.....bless you my child :) oops.. or should I say "religion is the opiate of the masses" ? *wink*

SOLUTION. The simplest solution to the problem of migrants with a different cultural background is firstly just enjoy them as people.. without feeling we need to pander to 'their' culture.. we just be 'us' and they come along.. and we welcome them..and after 3 generations you won't know the bleeding difference except maybe the surname.

But to have a specific 'policy' called "Multi" culturalism and then..worse.. to FUND it ? that's lunacy.

LEXI.....you say:

//There are often reasons for why many people stick to their "own kind" especially when they're not made to feel so welcome in the broader community. //

Sooooo....logically, IF the 'problem' is 'they don't feel welcome' THEN surely the solution is... to put funding and social expertise into removing that barrier....?

IF NOT...(not the logical constructs here?) and the 'difference' is exacerbated and enhanced by deliberate policy... is that going to cause the host to be 'more' welcoming of the guest?

Bronwyn,

As long as we remember that 'culture', anthropologically speaking, is the prettified cover for the power structure in a particular society, which in turn is derived from that society's economic make-up: it is used to justify whatever rules, and whoever rules, and however they rule.

Some 'cultures' are vicious and contemptible crap on that criterion, some are not. There is nothing holy or untouchable about the concept.

Joe