Show me, please, let me know, how do It ell a fundamentalist Islamists from A Muslim.
Yes we are at war, here and in Afghanistan.
But religion did not drive us there.
Self protection did,Taliban did not just want that country it sent its murderers over seas.
Afghanistan, petej trys to say we owe it to them to continue to die to stay.
Do we?
Can we change the in built fraud, lies, lack of willingness to help them selves.
We must stop the child like belief that by letting people transfer culture from these country's to ours we can breed the hate out of them.
Leave but fight smart never give in to primitive belief that enslaves whole peoples and harms women but watch the gates are not left open, we could see more refugee boats in a month than we have in total any time now.

>>Well that is an interesting point Bazz, because Bin Laden did say
that he would bankrupt America. 911 cost maybe a few hundred grand
to make it happen. Think what America has spent since then. Their
treasury is in fact nearly broke.

I heard recently that the US had spent in excess of one trillion dollars on both wars, and counting.

So, there is an understanding that we would turn to the US if we needed help in defending any future invation and, it is for this reason we must help them.

Well, what if they are broke and can't help us. Then what?

It will not be as simple as that rehctub,
Not only will energy decent cripple the US but also the Islamic
countries and their fundamentalist offshoots.

The Middle East countries are importers of food so they will have
enough problems at home to spend much time worrying about us.
There may be an increase in boat people but that will be the same
problem we have now only larger.

When that time comes most of our problems will be internal and may well
include an islamist segment.
Make no mistake, the whole economic and political regime is in for a
major shakeup which will force everything to be restructured.
As everything in complex societies is interlocked no one seems to be
able to decide if the collapse will be gradual or will fold up exponentially.

Thought that post was from arjay at first Bazz.
America has cash problems for sure.
We will still have iron ore to sell in 30 years but so too will others.
Food? we and the world produce much more than 50 years ago and that growth will continue.
Hungry people however find ways to eat do not be too sure the middle east is no danger.
If famine hit Afghanistan we would see many more leaving ,but is it our duty to stay?
Horrible though, but tell me I am wrong.
We have seen floods earth quakes the lot, are sending aid to many country's.
People in those country's still die of starvation and neglect.
Is it possible self help may be driven by us leaving?

Another slant from bigoted Belly, or is it thinking concerned?
This mornings press had a story about Australian children being asked to cover up from head to toe for?
Next years Ramadan.
Now before leaving for Afghanistan you can bet our troops are lectured in? religious sensibility's of that country.
Do we stay because we think it is right or just so our culture is treated no different than theirs.
See I put half the posters of, maybe diverted the thread but this complex issue comes down to why are we in this country.
And why, tell me , we learn their ways but have to bend in our own land to theirs?

No Belly, we tell them here that this is our country and tough S417 if they don't like it, while completely respecting whatever they want to do over there, only without us around to play a part.
Anyway, to differentiate, a simple quiz should suffice- such as about dressing secularly, marital questions etc.

Petej, that I also acknowledge. Personally I would rather stand neutral to the conflict (As it simply has no possibility of ending in my opinion until one of the two civilizations ceases to exist, and both sides have a rather poor record to put our name behind, and both sides have no qualms dragging innocent third parties down to enhance their campaigns)

Anyway I think I'm wasting my time otherwise in this thread, Yabby simply has no ability to understand simple points, such as differentiation against either fully supporting Israel and justifying absolutely everything they do as just and nice, or supporting the basket-case terrorist state in its crusade to destroy it.

And US being targeted because it is perceived as the heart of the free world? Please, did you get that one from FOX? How are Islamists going to know that, or for that matter, come to that conclusion?

Again, why did Bin Laden point out that he didn't attack the USA on this ground (or otherwise would have targeted Sweden) in his videos?
Why would anybody over there actually care, when they are surrounded by infidels half the distance away? What do you think jihad recruiters tell new members to encourage them to attack these states?
1 "these infidels murder our brothers and sisters"
2 "there are infidels across the sea that have nothing to do with us, but they are more infidel, based on their own judgement, than most of Europe which immediately borders our region, so we must show them to convert by making ourselves enemies and going underground!"

The deal is Yabby, I don't have to actually convince YOU, I only need to clarify these points for anyone else reading.