Nairbe,

Should we have gone into Afghanistan?

No. But we did.

I don’t think you should deceive yourself about the fate of Afghan women. While the coalition is there things are better for Afghan women than they were under the Taliban. Not great; but better.

Girls can go to school. Women can work. All this will vanish once the Taliban resumes power.

Read this Washington Post piece:

For pioneering Afghan Olympian, a different kind of race

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/11/AR2010091104838.html

Now imagine yourself explaining to Robina Jalali why you think the coalition should leave her and other Afghan women to the Taliban.

What would you say to her Nairbe?

Perhaps practise by imagining how you would explain to a Jewish family why you are leaving them to the Nazis.

Or imagine yourself an Afghan woman awaiting the return of the Taliban. For practise imagine yourself a Jew waiting for the Nazis.

And, yes, the Taliban CAN be compared to the Nazis. Godwin's law be damned. It is an appropriate comparison.

Yes, we should leave. But, for the sake of decency, we should not deceive ourselves about the fate of Afghan women. We owe it to the women of Afghanistan to be honest with ourselves.

Quite true guys;

And I should repeat my stance that I don't believe for a second that the consequences of this conflict will remain inside Afghanistan and if we were to crush the Taliban then militant fundamentalism will simply cease with them, or will just try to remain in that area.

I'm with Obama on this one. Al Queda did in fact use Afgahnistan
as a staging post for their attacks on the West. With the Taliban's
blessing, for of course in their eyes of fundamental Islamism,
we are all evil infidels and should all be forced to convert to
Islam. For those interested, read "Milestones" by Sayd Qutb,
to understand the philosophy that drives them.

That is the reason why we went there. But Afgahnistan was kind of
put on the backburner, whilst the focus was on Iraq. The Americans
got it all wrong in Iraq, but eventualy learnt from their mistakes
and eventually Petreus turned it around for them and they have been
able to scale down forces. Petreus has now been moved to focus on
Afgahnistan, to see if the same can be done there. I think its
worth giving him 18 months or so, to see if he can make a difference.

So its a bit simplistic to say that Afgahnistan is none of our
business. It was the same militant mob who killed Aussies on
holiday in Bali. Are you lot suggesting that we simply shrug
out shoulders and accept the regular killing of Western infidels?

If its your family who is blown up in Bali, should I just shrug
my shoulders and say it is none of my business?

Um Yabby, I'm not sure somebody told you about this but the group that attacked Bali was a group called Jamaah Islamiah- a completely different group who are based in South East Asia, not Afghanistan. Their only connection to Al Queda is they are allies. To imply that Afghanistan would in any way make a difference to their capabilities is an absurd stretch.

Also, I personally rather there be a country for all the fundamentalists to go to, than to look at other societies to settle in (ideally one with a cushier lifestyle- eg us).
It would also reduce motivation to conduct retaliatory terrorist attacks, as 911 was, as blatantly expressed, an attack in revenge of US middle East policy (the Bali attacks also- however being a p#@@weak group, could only target any random westerners within walking distance.

Despite all those repressive factors, Washington typically had no problem at all with the Taliban during Reagan's term - in fact they were treated like honoured guests during at least one visit. He even referred to the as "freedom fighters" after they Russians left.
Funny how attitudes can change so quickly.

It wasn't until the construction of the Unacol Oil Pieline through that country was stalled that they suddenly became persona non-grata and plans were already in place for the US to take military action there two months BEFORE September 2001.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MAD201A.html

While it's true that there have been training camps there the 911 terrorists were actually trained in the USA. Furthermore, the Taliban offered to hand over Bin Laden before the invasion but this was strangely rejected by Bush. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/oct/17/afghanistan.terrorism11

However, now we're stuck there and been paid off with a US Free Trade Agreement there is no easy way of withdrawing politically. Both Our Government and Opposition just don't have what it takes.

I for one am looking forward to the proposed parliamentary debate (if it ever happens).

yabby king Hazza has got it right do we then invade Indonesia?
rache has it spot on too like mother England and all colonial powers America has left its foot prints in blood.
But in our interests too.
lentaubman seems to have a few bob each way and not sure just what he wants.
My thoughts?
We are being had Saudi Arabia Pakistan, The whole middle east are not being honest.
I do not ask that we stop fighting the lunacy that is radical Islam.
But that we get out maybe and fight just as sneaky dirty and wisely as those multi faced country's do.
It will not be possible to set up radio Europe type things no radios no freedom to think and education only to oppose freedom.
But can we win this way.
We humanity should confront ALWAYS the dreadful treatment of women in this area and religion.
We can do so with economic weapons and in fact any way we can no Nation is not shamed by such hatred in the name of culture or God.