*THIS is the point you are missing. The Al Queda/Taliban coalition are only one single Islamist terrorist group out of thousands- and those thousand do not rely on them at all to commit attacks of their own*

I am not missing it at all, Hazza. But bin Laden became the
pinup boy and inpiration for many ideologists around the world,
because he was so successfull.

The fact that the key leaders of AQ are now either dead, in jail,
or hiding, takes some of the glow out of it all.

The bloke who was the key planner behind many of the AQ attacks,
can't think of his name right now, is in Gitmo.

What 911 changed is global state security. It was a wake up call
to what previously was not taken seriously. Everywhere you go,
intelligence services have their ears to the ground and any hint
of potential terrorism activity is jumped on. Countless potential
attacks have been thwarted.

One of the worrying things about Afghanistan when it was taken back
over from the Taliban, was what was going on there. Islamists
were doing research work on biological weapons and similar. They
were also trying to buy ex Soviet nuclear materials. Afghanistan
gave them a place to do all these things, in relative peace and
tranquility and with focus.

Not anyone can pull off a stunt like 911, it took some serious
planning, money and implementation

As do I Belly.
But quite frankly I just don't see any good in staying, especially that would have happened years ago, and in many ways we are not controlling Afghanistan, be it opium trade or preventing acts of brutality.

Yabby
"Everywhere you go,
intelligence services have their ears to the ground and any hint
of potential terrorism activity is jumped on. Countless potential
attacks have been thwarted."
-
Well there's your answer.

"One of the worrying things about Afghanistan when it was taken back
over from the Taliban, was what was going on there. Islamists
were doing research work on biological weapons and similar. "
-
Link?

"Not anyone can pull off a stunt like 911, it took some serious
planning, money and implementation"
-
It also took serious motivation towards the recruits to pull it off- which seems generally infidel countries that do not enter the 'holy land' seem not apply.

*Link?*

Hazza, that was around 8 or so years ago. No, I never saved a link
lol, but it was widely made public on both tv and the net I presume.
It was the reason that Americans started insisting that all containers
are checked before they leave any port here or elsewhere, for their
ultimate threat is a dirty bomb.

At the time, it actually cost me money. As an exporter, I suddenly
faced security at the airport, every box was scanned and of course
I had to pay the cost in the way of a security levy.

*It also took serious motivation towards the recruits to pull it off*

Amazingly its not that hard to motivate people to kill themselves,
in the name of religion. Press their emotional buttons and off they
go. Zealots are easily motivated.

People even offer to kill themselves for their country, by joining
their army.

But Yabby, so far evidence points that people are only motivated enough to:

-Kill themselves in the name of their religion when they feel their values are under attack to an extreme case (basically their holy sanctuaries or lands being attacked, their cult about to be destroyed and they themselves arrested and jailed, or they need to takeover their own society)

-Commit an attack if their values are under attack (but only immediately domestically- like Theo Van Gogh by a Moroccan immigrant).

-Take up arms and travel to defend people they immediately relate to that are under attack (eg Muslims entering another Muslim country being invaded, Australians defending Britain in the World Wars).

There has not been a single shred of evidence to indicate that terrorists will organize a cross-national attack against an overseas foreign target, (requiring abandonment and surrounding yourself with infidel culture with sometimes not a single Halal food item in sight), solely because they're infidels. There has always, always been one of the above motives.

The terrorists were either immediately close enough so that organizing the attack would be no big deal, or they were motivated by a foreign political/military conflict against a Muslim country by the country in question, or both.

By isolating yourself from these countries politically, but elaborating you are hostile to fundamentalist Islamic values, a country seems to get much less of any form of Islamic aggression- the UK on the other hand, sticking its fingers in numerous contentious middle east conflicts but bending over for extremists at home seems to have it worse than anyone else in the West. Switzerland seems to be having it the best.

So far, a few odd crazies thought of trying to travel to Sweden to kill a cartoonist (immediately arrested, and planned only amongst themselves), and nobody has yet tried to harm Switzerland. So far only a Libyan dictator tried to look tough by declaring a holy war against it- so far nothing.

*and nobody has yet tried to harm Switzerland.*

Not so Hazza. Already in 1970, the PLO blew up Swissair flight 330,
which crashed in Wuerenlingen, close to a nuclear power plant.
They were seemingly upset that 3 Palestians had been jailed by
Switzerland. Another Swissair flight was hijacked and blown up
on the tarmac.

The banning of minarets is not the banning of mosques. Minarets
come under planning laws and in Switzerland they tell you exactly
what you can and cannot build, what colour, what materials etc.
Hardly an attack on Islam.

The wars in Chechnya and the Philipines are not about people attacking
holy lands, but people wanting to create holy lands. So do we create
a new holy land in sections of Britain or Holland, when enough Muslims
live in sections of them? There have in fact already been
suggestions to do exactly that.

yabby you have the staying power to win the Melbourne cup by ten lengths then keep going and running it again.
While I hoped to debate if we should stay you have made little progress while telling it like it is.
Hate to see the deaths hate the corruption.
Dislike the thieving by government officials.
The fact this poll over there is a fraud, and that they still have not got a government.
But if a chance exists, that we can do some good, prove me wrong about a far bigger war with radical Islam in our near future then stay.
If like that Asian war we are not allowed to win come home now.
So watch be hard on fraud but stay is my vote but not forever.