Suze

Men who don't think of others are called selfish. Men are never allowed to forget the consequences of choices. Why should women be treated any different?

I understand that you are only conforming to your gender role by never criticising other women, but your attitude belongs in the past. Choices have consequences and women who understand this go alot further in life.

In Gone with the Wind, there is a scene where all of the ladies totter off for a sleep after lunch while them men discuss issues that the women need to be protected from. Some of us have moved on from those attitudes. I have, Hanrahan has, you need to join us.

Yes Pynchme, the joke was good alright! However, the thread is about what the sexual revolution has ever done for women, so I ran with that and put some jokes out there about men.

I would hazard a guess that there are far more put-downs about women in these forums than there ever will be about men, so I was just trying to even the score:).
Sorry if I upset you, but I wasn't trying to upset anyone.

Benk, I am not 'conforming' to any role at all. Just trying to have some fun really. Lighten up for goodness sake.

In actual fact 'Gone With The Wind' was my all time most favourite movie, and I would have LOVED to have lived in those days!
I don't believe that the women were protected from anything however.
It was a tough life for all in those days of civil war, as the rest of that movie showed very well.

suzeonline:"I would have LOVED to have lived in those days! "

Gawd 'elp us.

Hanrahan:"Why increasingly is the night out a boys night out"

Now that is a very interesting question indeed. It may be to do with the fact that many, many young men have seen what happened to Dad when Mum got tired of him and have decided not to put themselves in that position; it may be that they are simply getting tired of being the one expected to pay for everything when their g/f probaly earns as much if not more than they do; it may be they're rebelling against an increasingly rigidly feminised society, in which normal masculine activities are demonised at every turn and they simply want some space to be blokes.

There are any number of possible reasons, including the one you put forward, but you won't get a sensible discussion about them from the grrrls brigade: they're too busy being "solid" with their "sistagrrrls", albeit mostly between the ears.

Suze

I did-not object to your jokes about men. I took issue with the following comments;

"I respect men who respect the rights of women to wear what they choose.
I respect women who wear what they like and don't give a damn what men think!"

I see these comments as an example of paternalism, where women are seen as needing protection. I don’t think that this “do whatever you like and I will compliment you” attitude helps women.

I simply see myself as willing to be brutally honest. I believe that my attitudes towards women’s sexuality are quite moderate and common sense. I think that being flirty or slutty will make people think less of them and make it harder for them to get the best boyfriend that they can possibly get. I would say the same thing about sleazy men. I also dislike the way that many women complain about men who love them and leave them but make no effort to avoid these sleaze.

You on the other hand, seem unbelievably reluctant to post anything that might be seen as criticising any woman. By doing this, you are conforming very closely to your gender role.

Choices have consequences. Choosing to act in particular ways can have negative consequences for the woman involved and for women more generally. If women are going to be the most that they can be, these consequences need to be discussed. If the world is going to become a better place for women, then women need to think about what they can do to make this happen. Lastly, I don’t think that it helps women to be better people to encourage them to be so hypersensitive to criticism.

I think we're all supersensitive to criticism.
No one likes to be demeaned -
male or female - and referring to females as the
" grrr girl brigade" is unnecessary. But possibly
in this case - understandable - as a hit back
when the teasing hits a bit close to home.

Relationships at the best of times - aren't easy.
However, in a mature relationship, people can ideally
hold onto themselves, not being drawn into the drama
of reacting defensively if their partner throws a
tantrum. This is a case when individuals can be
authentic rather than what some mental therapists
call their "pseudo selves," trying to impress or please
others and denying their real feelings and fears.
The bottom line in our relationships will only be satisfactory
as we are in ourselves.

Hope this makes sense.

Suzie: <"I would hazard a guess that there are far more put-downs about women in these forums than there ever will be about men, so I was just trying to even the score:).">

Well that's a damned fact too - and they are much more directly hateful as well.

Suzie: <"Sorry if I upset you, but I wasn't trying to upset anyone.">

No matie you didn't upset me. You and Foxy would have to go a long way to be as mean as a good number of the woman-haters here on OLO, and even they don't upset me.

I just felt obliged to state an opinion on behalf of blokes who are different to the sorts in the jokes.

I know you and Foxy have men in your lives that you love dearly, just as I do; that's why I was sure you'd be ok with me making sure the other side of the coin was noted.