*DavidF*

" ... Religion can be a mechanism of control. ... "

Indeed and it calls to mind a comment by that person pell not so long ago when speaking about mary mckillop. I don't recall his exact words but it was something like:

" ... Even when the church leaders were treating her deplorably she remained faithful to them. ... "
(I wonder if that's a sign of a being a Saint? LOL)

This is the sort of idiocy that some religious people hold up as an example for the masses. It is beyond me as to why this individual gets any airtime at all.

And again my "hat" off to you *DavidF* for uncovering another frothing at the mouth fanatic. And I quote *StG*:

" ... David is out to harm. ... "
" ... with your hatred and intolerance of others. ... "

And I quote a response to this incoherent gibberish from a more enlightened poster.

" ... Like many people 'of faith' (*StG*), you don't seem to like anyone disagreeing with your beliefs. ... "

Well said.

I actually suspect that in reality *StG* is accusing *DavidF* of intolerance and hate, which has no basis in fact that I am aware of, because *StG* is "intolerant" of others when they question his blind, dogmatic, claptrap and in the metaphorical death throws of his irrational ego when confronted with the truth of his delusion, vents "hatred" himself by way of bearing false witness and false accusation against *David,* in a perhaps inane attempt to engender support from others.

..

Reminds me of some "hearsay" that came my way today re an Islamic Cleric here locally who comes out with all this flowery language about interfaith harmony and tolerance during his *(Un)Holy Week* speech, and then follows up allegedly with a vile anti-jewish rant.

Dear George,

The former President Jimmy Carter gave an interview in which he confessed to "lusting in his heart" and apparently made the equation with actually giving way to that lust. He apparently felt guilt for merely having the feeling.

This is not restricted to Christians. On Yom Kippur Jews repent for having evil thoughts. My personal morality finds the idea of "evil thoughts" an unreasonable sort of mind control. I remember as a 15 year old boy lying prone of the lawn as our next door neighbour, possibly ten years older, would disport herself working around on her lawn in a filmy yellow dress so sheer that the outline of her body and what she was wearing underneath, sometimes nothing, was quite evident as the benevolent sun shone through. I am sure she knew what effect she had, as I was lying prone to conceal that effect. She knew I would do nothing about it, and I remember her with gratitude. It seemed most unreasonable to feel guilt at what was an innocent pleasure freely offered and freely appreciated.

Religious people sometimes seem to regard non-religious people as not having understanding of their feelings of devotion. I can understand it, as I have had great feelings of devotion along with my doubts of God. I have felt that I had to obey all the strictures of religion and felt great guilt when I inadvertently bought and ate a candy bar during Passover. As the taste of chocolate lingered on my palate I begged the God I had doubts about for forgiveness.

It is not just Christianity or religion that I question. I question unreasoning belief in dogma whether the dogmas of religion or of a secular faith like Marxism. It seems very wrong to me to have faith in unprovable propositions. I can’t see that as a virtue in any way. Questioning and doubt seem natural and good, and faith seems a vice.

It was a long inward struggle before I finally gave up the idea of a supernatural. A great feeling of liberation accompanied giving it away.

Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.

During His lifetime,no persons were described as "Jews" anywhere...That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea,..it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves.."Jews"...Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea...They existed at that time in Asia, their.."homeland",..and were known as Khazars.

In none of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a.."Jew"...The term originated..in the late eighteenth century..as an abbreviation of the term Judean..and refers to a resident of Judea..without regard to race or religion,..just as the term.."Texan"..signifies a person living in Texas.

In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called ..Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history..that there is one record,..prior to that period, ..f a race religion or nationality, referred to as.."Jew".

The religious sect in Judea,..in the time of Jesus,.to which self-styled.."Jews"..today..refer to as "Jews",..were known as "Pharisees"..."Judaism" today and "Pharisaism"..in the time of Jesus are the same.

Jesus abhorred and denounced.."Pharisaism";..hence the words,.."Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees,..Hypocrites,..Ye Serpents,..Ye Generation of Vipers".

JESUS WAS NOT A Jew
by Jason Collett

Many denominational Christians and even church leaders are under the mistaken belief that Jesus was a Jew...But nothing could be further from the truth.

Judea and Galilee..were two separate states and political entities,.as illustrated on the map of Palestine in the time of our Saviour in your Bible...Jesus Himself was not a Jew (Judean) or resident of Judea,..He was a Galilean or resident of Galilee (Matthew 26:69; John 7:41),..and a Judahite or descendent of the Tribe of Judah...The Judeans of prominence were not of the Tribe of Judah,..but of Edomites.

Pilate was being ironic when he wrote the sign.."Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Judeans"..for the Cross (John 19:19).//That is,.."the Galilean who was King of the Judeans,"..as in "Queen Victoria of England,..Empress of India."..Jesus grew up in Nazareth in Galilee.

...John Hyrcanus forcibly assimilated the Edomites as a national group..and they became.."Jews"..in about 120BC.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89GlA5temPA
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&rls=MEDA%2CMEDA%3A2008-36%2CMEDA%3Aen-GB&q=jesus+not+judean..not+jew&btnG=Search&meta=

Dear david f,
I tried to argue that the quote from the Bible did not “make the equation”, not Carter, although even without knowing the context of what he said, I doubt he would “equate” “lusting in his heart” with “adultery” or even rape.

As to your experience at age 15, I think that is normal, though I did not understand whether you wanted to say that being neurotic about sexual matters was not restricted to the Catholic Church.

The feelings of guilt serve the purpose of helping individuals to adjust to the community/society they are part of, whether or not you accept a divine imperative. Like many other things, feelings of guilt can be misplaced or exploited by those who want to manipulate people for whatever reasons that might or might not be related to the Church or other religious authority.

Thank you for the sincere words explaining your frustration with the religion of your youth and the “great feeling of liberation” when you gave it away. As you know, today there are also many ex-Christian people with similar experiences.

I myself first encountered this kind of sentiments when after finishing my high school studies some of my classmates expressed “feelings of liberation” from having to study (and feel guilty when under-performing at exams), whereas I was looking forward to studies at the University, where everything was on an even more challenging level.

This, however, does not mean I feel superior, or what, to those classmates, since I know that there are many people who stopped at that level with their formal education and achieved more - in whatever sense, including moral - than many of us who spent our lives in the academic “ivory tower”.

I think something similar could be said about my feelings towards those who stopped at a certain level with trying to understand their faith (c.f. Anselm’s fides quaerens intellectum), and either accepted or rejected it with that level of understanding.

DreamOn,

Apt name. You generally make stuff up as you go?. David is intolerant. Pure and simple. He won't deny it either. He has no time for religion nor understanding or comprehending what that might mean to those involved....like you, apparently.

Evolution is just as much a dreamt up theory as you propose Creation to be. But here you are sitting on your little pedestal of self righteousness spruiking condemnation for me!. Ironic, considering your rant.

I don't care if no one agrees with me or if anyone is convinced at what I say. Unlike you, and David.

Nice personal attack from the side lines though. Classy.

It still blows my mind that you guys CONDEMN those with faith. There is no attempt to understand or live and let live. It's just total quashing.

BE interested to hear your thoughts on multiculturalism.

Lust is not to be equated with natural attraction but with scheming in the heart. It is the attitude to gain for ourselves somthing that rightfully belongs to others. It is the planning in the mind to take for ourselves, without mutual agreement. e.g. Drink spiking is an act of born from lust.