Well said, rstuart, good insight.

Dear rstuart,

You've summed it up very well!

“Equally, you can produce an abused and damaged kid while never laying a hand on them. …isn't that simple - if it was everybody would produce perfect kids. The problem is when to discipline, and how often. Knowing when and how often is far more difficult - that is why you girls discuss it endlessly.”

Oh us girls. Maybe this is what is wrong here within the department that is supposed to care for kids. You big brave men left it to the girls on account of raising the nation’s children being such a bloody tedious mind numbing topic. Now if a thread on nappy rash or teething had been opened I’d probably just step aside cause you might as well be over on BubHub.

“And that is my point. The original question was about smacking. I am saying smacking isn't good or bad per se. Bad outcomes are produced by bad parenting, not smacking. If you managed the impossible and stopped smacking, poor parents would find some other way to loose control.”

Pick up your brow baby; some parents aren’t looking for ways to lose control. I didn’t spend the last two decades on valium, I didn’t need to find control, it never went anywhere. You probably have no idea what behavior issues come with foster kids but they improve through painless parenting. I know this, I have seen the comparison.

I would suggest more parents DO AS I DO! But hey if they can’t or didn’t because they thought they turned out okay, I really don’t care as long as we’re talking the odd smack and not the odd beating.

But are you seriously suggesting that you are dubious that you can have a well rounded kid without smacking? This isn’t “insight” this is frightening. The best little kids are ones that come to me early enough that no smacking, or any other type of hurt ever entered their lives. They learn faster, react quicker, trust and cuddle more and aren’t as scared to try new things. Same with my own two.

Jewely, while I too admire your deeds, we all realise that foster-kids are a different class of problem completely, and require special handling.

I was trying, in my last post, to raise the issue of reasons for discipline. Discipline, is a last resort, whether a parent uses a smack or the removal of treats or whatever. I would think that environment plays an important part of a child's well-being.

I find it absurd that a parent should be surprised when, upon reaching adolescence, a child who has never been given the opportunity to take responsibility for themselves in a variety of situations, tell their parents where to stick it.

Discipline is only a part of raising children, before resorting to a smack, may be we should stop to think what brought on the bad behaviour to begin with.

As I stated previously; "No amount of discipline is going to help unless children get to test boundaries for themselves - discover the joys and the dangers of the world (within reason of course). We can't protect them from life, but we can help them to live it."

The topic is titled, "Do as I do" and leading by example is the best way, along with providing an environment in which a child learns that they are trusted and respected. With the trend towards overprotective parenting, how can anyone expect their kids to respect them? Respect and trust is a two way street - both sides have to earn it. By overprotecting children parents are saying they don't have enough trust in their kids.

A healthy supportive environment means that discipline becomes a rare occurrence and all the more powerful when it is required.

As Jewely says: "The best little kids are ones that come to me early enough that no smacking, or any other type of hurt ever entered their lives. They learn faster, react quicker, trust and cuddle more and aren’t as scared to try new things. Same with my own two."

“Jewely, while I too admire your deeds, we all realise that foster-kids are a different class of problem completely, and require special handling.”

Max, I raised my own two from their super painful natural births onwards. Admire that deed.

I am sure I have complained endlessly about my daughter – I swear it is her biological father’s genes at play, he was the top Asia Pacific Server dude at IBM, give a toss, he was an idiot no matter what his idiotic salary claimed him to be. I say “was”; he died two years ago, still none the wiser. He never smacked either though and nor does her step-father of 13 years.

At 17 she is still here driving me nuts, blames me for the weather no less, but never will she turn to me and say I ever bullied her or ever inflicted any pain to teach/control/raise her. Same with my boy who mostly has my genes.[grin]

You shouldn’t admire me Max, this should be common parenting practice.

PS.. OUG your e-mail doesn't work.