Could only find old posts on this subject, and no recognisable posters, so I thought I'd re-enter it.
Discipline, or the lack there-of.
I'm a believer; I smacked my kids, for dangerous acts - fire, electricity, sharps, etc, but not for behavioural matters, other than them hitting each other.
I personally believe the education system is failing kids, because of a lack of discipline at school. I believe that kids learn self-control and self-discipline by having a disciplined environment to grow and learn in. I also believe that if you need to smack past about 5-7 years of age, there is no point, it's time to find other processes to deal with the problems.
And YES, I do believe teachers should be allowed to use corporal punishment, under strict guidelines.
I followed these beliefs in the raising of three kids, and am as proud as anyone of my young adults, all achievers and very self-disciplined. I am very close with them still, and they are perfectly happy with the way they were brought up, smacks and all.
OK, you can call me a brutal savage now......

the aborigonals say..hitting a child only drives the problem deeper,..in aborigonal society it says clearly..'a parents duty is to love the child'..[to create the person]..it is society that makes the citizen]

with animals its proven that any correction..must take place in the monent..the correction is needed...one second too late..the beast has no idea what it did wrong..[and accepts only the fact it is hated..[lost the linkage..it has done anything wrong

whats with adults hitting kids?...is it to make you feel better..[or them]..i only slapped my daughter once..[when she was sucking on an electric lead]..and my son twice..[once when crossing the road without looking[the other when he was threatening the daughter

if you cant remember why you had to hit your kid..[that means your hitting them too much..as for others hitting them,..that should clearly be out of bounds...here is why..[if threats work with kids then any threat will do]...so here is a for instance

a child molestering/teacher hits your child..so they are afraid to tell you they been molestored...and if they get away with it..[or god forbid one of you nutters says its fine..the danger is clear]..threats work

on the other hand if violence is forbidden..[not just in words but as a family fact..[you wont get kids beating each other up in the streets[i didnt mention fighting in movies,..that also leads to us being conditioned..to accept people belting the ccc rap out of each other]

any violence is wrong..[my kids dont recall me hitting them 3 times but i sure do]..yes..you can excuse it all you like..[but why your parents hit you isnt the case in point...[you hitting your kids is]

ps i feel the same way about woman cutting off a boys foreskin..as i do about femail circumzision..[if you want to do it to your boy..first get your self done]...no anistetic..

the kids grow up and realise they been mutilated..[thus..think its allright to mutilate back]..it sets up a certain mindset..[an inner anger..that allows vengence..disscised as dicipline]

the same type support the same rites...just because it was done to you..is it thus right to do the same to others?

My elder daughter told me, one fathers day, that I had been strict with her and her sister when they were growing up....

then she added the rider....

"but we needed it."

I hated disciplining my daughters but I did it to enforce the boundaries of courtesy, politness and consideration of others in them.

I did have one rule, smack only with my hand.. then I had some idea to how much it stung.

However, as well as discipline, they also got alot of attention and my unconditional love.

Both my girls are responsible, respectful and productive individuals who have high self esteem and self worth.

Any prancing nancy who thinks you can bring up kids without the imposing limits and boundaries to their conduct and behaviour (discipline) is a fool.

The undisciplined child grows into the undisciplined adult, with an endless sense of self-entitlement and no idea of personal responsibility... the sort who feels it is OK to be a parasite on the rest of society demanding ever greater dole cheques and hand outs and the sort who thinks the rules never apply to them.

New-aged, airey-fairy modernist teaching theorists have the defects of alot of maladjusted adults on their conscience.

Max you are a brutal savage. Nah you’re alright. Gawd I used to have appointments given to me for set punishments and jeez it hurt when the buckle got you.

I didn’t smack mine and of course I don’t smack the foster children. But I have in the last nearly two decades; about 5 different situations now when I have gotten such a fright I have slapped a little hand away from something or pushed a child out of fear – although I remember the emotion hot on fears tail was one of anger.

Oh yeah then guilt (that lasts much longer than the other two).

OUG – yep no circumcision, no way no how, horrible and stupid thing to do and I had a huge fight with two sets of parents when my son was born. Hope he doesn’t ever login here now.

Yes Col absolutely agree with you, boundaries and discipline are vital and the kids crave it.

I have realised that kids that haven’t been hit have this abundance of self confidence and more fight in them because their parents didn’t do it no one else is bloody allowed to. Both mine are super confident outgoing teens (daughter far too outgoing).

I always wondered what I would be like if I wasn’t raised to be so physically scared all the time growing up.

Jewely, you seem to be looking at the extreme case, as I said, I didn't smack for bad behaviour, only for dangerous things. My kids are as sassy and confident as any of their peers, but have innate self-discipline now. Oh yes, I remember the guilt, I hated doing it, but, needs must, it was a conscious decision, and action, so no regrets.
"....more fight in them because their parents didn’t do it no one else is bloody allowed to." can also lead to no respect for authority, and no recognition of boundaries or any sense of empathy for others, an entirely self-centred individual.

i should add..there is more than physical-cruelty,there is mental cruelty,and debatedly the mental is more cruel,..i have allways had a way with words,..and have raised my kids..to not be frightend of words

i read verosiously at every stage of parenting,..comming to the main conclusion that kids dont do as we say..[but copy that they see us do,..especially when they think we arnt watching..[or they think we dont know..their watching]..maybe my way with words are slightly egsagurated..[im talking about at the child level...lol]

as parents we all..[mostly]..do as was done to us..[on the other hand there are those who refuse to repeat..that done to them..[kids need dicipline...especially self dicipline..[but more need a good egsample]

there was one time i recall my child..stole some small-change from mum's purse,..i was told to fix it..i will repeat the words..[i said your mother loves you..[and you are willing to betray her love for money..at this stage..some may hit..

but i hit..with emotion..[i took a twenty dollar note from my wallet and burned it in front of him...saying other words..i now forget..[but he no doudt recalls]..he has never stolen since..still has the corner of the burnt-note in his pockett..

it may seem emotionally cruel..[but the point is to make the correction memorable..[but not as just another vile-ence episode...or quasi-legalised parental/assult]...we all do the best we can in the moment..[

my one rule was not to physiclly hit,b..ut in the heat of the moment this may be temper-airilly forgotten...[on those three occasions,to my shame..[instinct can take over...but thats my guilt i must live with..but any who uses an instrument on a child..is a coward

children must know they are loved and have certain expectations they must adhere to..[but then so to must parents...and especially teachers

i could forgive a cop giving a kid a kick up the but..[but not any further..[or to the point of injury]...one slap is dicipline..[any more is vengence..[spite or meanness/cruelty]...

make the point..and allways explain why...and reward good behaviour..[and some time afterwards..talk about it to them]..[they cant hear if they are crying[or yelling]..[or thinking][or frightend]...but you all know that allready..[right]