RStuart that was completely weird. Kids are actually quite happy and comforted not being in control and in fact they much prefer the big people to take just about all control. They like being happy though and will follow rules if the good times continue.

What they do like is choice and responsibility in a controlled way even little things like okay lets get dressed and you are going to wear this top but you choose which trousers you want.

They also like warnings… It is bedtime in five minutes not a sudden Bedtime Now! Learn how to time stuff, don’t make bedtime in the middle of some program they are watching.

They respond brilliantly to their opinion being listened to… we have to go shopping but after would you all prefer to come home and have ice blocks or stop at Maccas for an ice cream. Nah we are not doing both.

But part of what I do is create a little team, these are little kids without their families so they need a little team of their own. We have movie nights and normally the kids will be asked to go decide which movie they want to watch first, the odd fight erupts over this but then distraction comes in… c’mon popcorn is ready and you all need to sit down oh look at this movie it looks like a good one to start with who chose that.

Much older kids will get the, okay now stop and listen to why I don’t want you to do this. They bloody hate being lectured and they know I love a good bleat. I will even get all their friends to come in so I can lecture to a bigger crowd and they can all tell me what is so good about these plans they have.

My husband says I am the most manipulative person on earth – in a good way.[smile] But no sudden physical contact with any child unless they are choking thanks.

@Jewely
I commend and thank you for your enlightenment and hope you and your kids have wonderful and fulfilling lives.

Maximillion

IMO you are undoubtedly right with your PRINCIPAL of discipline/ and corporal punishment (CP). There are of course other issues at play.

The one that seems to be lacking in the posts was highlighted in the posed question 'Do as I do.!' as opposed to the all too common “do as I say not as I do' or 'Go and watch TV daddy's busy'
Given the latters we shouldn't be surprised if the children develop unwanted attitudes/behaviours
The ads on TV about children picking up attitudes from the parents drinking alcohol .

Also one can't be too complacent about the influences of external factors like TV and ads.
These are fine in a balanced home where parent(s) make the effort to counter the fantasy on 'the box' with reality.

While all this may seem common sense the point is, not all parents' are either as good as they think they are or even make the effort.

I try/ed to remember this when I had the mind to criticise the school system. I found that more often than not (but not exclusively) a poorly behaved child has SOME basis in the home and all the CP etc. in the world won't undo the damage done at home.

CP was “in” when I was young yet while at a private school, there was a regular list of expelees. Many of these were from “good families” (sic?) .

“Dad you were tough but we needed it” is while well intended, can be faint praise .
Questions like 'Why did they need you to be tough?' and isn't this retrospect really confirmation of 'give me the child I'll give you the adult ' (Jesuit truism). Given that I'm not perfect I hope my children do better than me.

I resist 'pride' (I dislike the term as it implies value judgement and ownership of what/who they are) in our children. I like to think that their achievement are theirs. I was merely A source.
I love all our children regardless but empathise with their happinesses and sadnesses etc.

I take exception to your contumely MIKK. Whenever someone on this forum expresses an opinion, there is always someone who retaliates with some insensate and somewhat exaggerated polemic. I don't think anyone suggested hanging or burning at the stake. I know you are trying to make a point, but when you say "Hitting weak, defenseless kids is bloody abhorrent and anyone I hear of doing it will be reported as a child abuser" conveys a totally different picture than controlled corporal punishment administered with understanding by both parties. It sounds as though you had little affection from your parents if you were afraid of them. I grew up knowing right from wrong and it was often validated by a good stinging slap on the backside and great respect and love for and from my parents.

I would like to know why there is a far greater incidence of bad behaviour, insolence, loss of respect, anger and violence since any form of corporal punishment was abolished. Our prisons are overflowing and there is no sense of responsibility. I just believe that most kids grow up now not having these disciplines, partly because they have never had them taught and that teaching in part relates to a little bit of pain sometimes. Our grandparents sometimes had a few things right.

Perhaps I've been blessed but I never smacked my two, now both teenagers, and they seemed to have turned out alright although one never knows what the future may bring.

I remember a friend who was smacking their child because of drawing on walls. We told ours, with great ceremony I might add, that they had a whole wall each they could draw on to their hearts content (in their own rooms) but the deal was they were not to draw on any others. We never had a problem.

These were places of pride and as they are now quite proficient with their art I am sure there was an added benefit. It was quite a sad day when they finally said they wanted them painted over but we still have the pictures.

I had always regarded physical punishment would signal a failure by me as a parent however I am willing to accept that a couple of terrific kids probably afforded me the luxury of abstinence.

“I am discussing discipline as a parenting tool, you seem to be focused on something else.”

Sorry Max I really lack focus right now, I will try and concentrate but you are referring to physical discipline as a parenting tool?

“little wonder DOCS doesn’t like you.”

The little caseworkers like me but their requests for children to be placed with me are being, I have been told, ignored by management. Further proof I guess about how much management care for the children if my punishment is more important.

“…pick up broken and bleeding babies, and confront the alleged-humans who caused it. I have seen the terror in the eyes of a little girl, just because I was male, and I lost it, had a “word” with the offenders, to no avail.”

Sucks aye and few understand it. I am usually in a better place, they arrive, I fix them, they go, usually to god only knows where or with who, I never get to hear. I can’t care for the child if having bad thoughts about their parents, I let that stuff go.

“And I am not ashamed to say, I wept, many times. Eventually I quit, had to, just couldn’t handle it any more, the stress was literally killing me”

Hmm… I have spent three months now is some sort of weird state of panic that sort of bubbles up to rage then back to panic, I suspect I have given myself an ulcer or something. I will weep, but not yet.

Thank you for the support Mikk.

Snake, we don’t know, you don’t even know. Unless you have a twin that was never smacked for a comparison?

I don’t think you’d be able to find a single prison inmate that wasn’t smacked or worse growing up.

But, I do know, and I would swear to this under threat of death; A child can learn right from wrong and everything in-between in completely “devoid of pain and fear” lessons. Takes more time and a bit more thought but I always thought children worth the effort.