Obozo

Thanks for exposing thecruel animals slaughtered in other countries.

Sadly We cant change the world overnight. However we can and must make sure Australian Animals are not sent to suffer such deaths overseas.[by not sending them unless in a box]

Perhaps I should post pictures taken by oil rigger workers.

Animals tossed overboard that are ill slowly torn apart by sharks.

Worse being put down mincers on the ships alive.!

Anybody who calls themselves a christian Graham then says they are busy with other things after seeing such cruelty to Australia Animals are fooling themselves.
I intend to do just as you suggested. Family First is the first christian based political party.
Thats who we are asking to make a stand.

Oh and of course ALL Church Leaders not to mention decent human beings of any belief.

Thanks for pointing out its political.

I am concerned about the Christain schools black listing their children from being involved in Animal Welfare.

We had seventy Kids on a school project.
They ALL wanted Animal Welfare. Isnt that wonderful.!

Pretty cluey too these kids. Amoung themselves they got a woolbag and filled! it with letters to 60 minutes asking John Howard to stop live exports.

They worked so hard!.

One day the priniciple informed the kids they were not allowed to express their views on live exports because it was political.

Thats is a clear example of the Church Leaders behavoir. I still have the kids letters in the wool bag.

Church schools are not only not doing their job but stopping kids freedom of speech when they try to be christian and caring.

The School has a long history of National Party. JOE went there.

I certainly would not want my Child told not to speak out about animal cruelty.

Would You Graham?

GrahamY,

I knew I should’ve gone after the Buddhists, except they don’t really constitute a significant percentage of the Australian population, or even the OLO demographic for that matter. Thought I’d made myself clear on previous posts. I don’t want to pick on any particular group. However, when one group is clearly in power over others (as in our current fed gov), has the greater demographic representation and, therefore, the greater influence, then their absence on an important issue is notable.

As for Abbot claiming ‘logic’ for his policies as opposed to being influenced by his religion. Logic would dictate that an adult woman is within her rights to determine her fertility and take advantage of medical treatments that are both safe and appropriate. Therefore, I am compelled to disbelieve Abbot and his claims of impartiality as he actively attempted to deny a medical procedure that had been approved for use in Australia.

‘Citizen’ Pell? Could 'good' Christian Howard have found anyone more opinionated or controversial? I think not. The position of GG needs to be one of the highest degree of impartiality. Pell has strongly held views on many controversial issues – he is incapable of objectivity and was perceived by the public as a partisan appointment. And, ultimately, was forced to step down amid much disturbing controversy.

I would have equal objections if our parliament was as influenced by Islam or Mayan sun-worshippers as it is currently influenced by very conservative, illiberal Christians.

As for the topic as being less important than other issues (I think that is what you meant by being “more occupied by other interests”), may I point out that farming, the environment, animal welfare, healthy eating and sustainable practices are interconnected – part of our universal responsibility on this planet. If you care about one, then, logic dictates, you care about all.

Animal welfare is not a side issue it is a part of our human responsibility to the world we, as human beings, currently dominate.

Obozo,
thank you for sharing that gruesome experience and article.

Scout,
yu always make a lot of sense and again you have said it so well- I have the same realistic view about Abbot and his ‘impartiality’.

Wendy,
Any parent and teacher can be very proud of the way these kids concern themselves with animal welfare issues! Hard to believe as they are setting such good example.
WHO SAYS (apart from that principal )kids can’t get involved- is there a law against it? It sounds so unbelievable in this day and age that children would be blacklisted for caring about something that happens to invole politics. If it were my child I’d be proud that my kid got blacklisted because of that, I’d try Today Tonight show with some other parents who cared.

GrahamY
Most of your questions have been answered by others, but please don’t feel that you are wasting time- you are making some good points, whether we agree or not. Your opinion is valued.
One valid point you are making and I’d like to discuss is “It's the church's primary role to teach and convert individuals...”

Perhaps it would make an interesting discussion if we can talk a little about the role and responsibilities of the church and church leaders. I’ll have to be honest and admit that I do not know much about that, but I thought one would expect church leaders to “To serve Christ in All Creations” and therefore, as Christians, seriously talk of concerns about the expoitation/cruelty of animals.
Scouts points out very well and I have said this in a previous post, that animal isues are connected with other areas as well.

I don’t feel that the criticism we have about the church is damaging the church- I see it as a little leg-up for the church to help them realise that it’s about time to broaden their role in animal advocacy.
In a way we help the church realise that their voice on animal cruelty and inhumane commercial exploitation of animals is needed and wanted, will be heard and be meaningful.

Scout: You might want to review your comments about Pell on the basis that it was Hollingworth who was appointed GG. I also think you're not being particularly logical on the abortion argument, but I don't want to divert the thread. However, if it is OK to determine there is a point at which the fetus cannot be aborted, and I think most pro-choice advocates do, then surely it is a legitimate logical pursuit to argue about where that point should be, which is what Abbott is doing.

Celivia, the point I'm making is that the Christian Church is not primarily a lobby group, and in fact doesn't have any view, let alone a unified view, on a whole range of issues. Nor should it. This may be more a Protestant view than a Roman or Orthodox one, but it is up to the individual, in the light of their understanding of God's will revealed through the bible, through reason and through reflection, to decide what is moral for themselves. It's not up to the Church to come to some conclusion on their behalf.

Like many regular church-goers I'm frequently alienated and mortified when churchmen speak out on public policy areas, presuming in a sense to speak for Christians, when frequently they know little about the subject area. When you look at the teachings of Christ, they are full of this sort of ambiguity. When the woman caught in adultery (he saved her from stoning) asks him what to do, presumably expecting a long list, he simply says "Go and sin no more." i.e. "You have it within yourself to work it out."

Graham

At last I get it.
You are saying the church has no place for leadership.
No direct role for anything really much in this day and age.
Its just someplace to go to make christain people feel better.
May I ask a question in that case. Why do the Churches get involved! in child abuse and starving people?

You say they dont speak out on a political level, Ok Then.

Why Should Steve Fielding and Family First be playing politics?

Isnt it true that Family First represent ALL The Christrians organisations in Australia.?

Yes it is!. He personally informed us of that at our meeting with him.
So on the one hand you say Church has no place speaking about political topics.

Yet The Church are up to their necks in Politics.

You cant have it both ways.

That would be being a hypocrite

Which is what I am accusing the Churches of being.

The Church as spiritual leaders if not just plain decent people have a duty to protect Gods creatures
.
Thank You for posting here because you are really one of the better people who at least have the nagging feeling you should say something.
I admire your loyalty and faith in the lord. I share the same faith. Just make sure however your loyalty is not used and you are not misguided.
Gods wants you to do what is right. Not what a man or leader of a church is doing if its not right. Why dont you write to your political church Leader Steve Fielding and point that out.
You know something ; The Churches joining politics is the best thing that ever happend for animal welfare. I thank God for That.

The old saying God Works in mysterious ways certainly applys.

Please pray for guidence to our lord on this issue.

Look at some of the footage and ask our lord. Should I turn my back on the animals who are being misttreated while the church Leaders say nothing Lord.?

Listen for he will surely answer you .

Go in peace.
G Y

Wendy, I think that you may have misunderstood Graham. I didn't read any sign of support in his message for the kind of church run political involvement you are raising in his post.

I suspect that he see's the prime role of the church is to join together to worship their god and to provide teaching about their faith. From there it would be up to each individual believer to live out that faith based on their understanding of it. For some that will mean involvement in differing causes (Graham and his work here) and for others it will mean differeing things. Safer for the rest of us than those who try to use the church to push their own agenda's.

Likewise "Isnt it true that Family First represent ALL The Christrians organisations in Australia.?" - my understanding is that they may wish to be seen that way but that they are primarily an offshoot of the AOG church.

Cheers
R0bert