Scout, I characterised the act, rather than the person. There is nothing authentically Christian about abusing animals, even if some Christians do it.

And the analogy of calling on Muslim leaders to speak out against terrorism fails, because in Islam there is little distinction between Church and State, whereas in Christianity there is. It might be the same glove, but it is a totally different hand.

Most of us who are Christian don't run around telling people that we are. Maybe we should, but we don't. You'd have no idea how many Christians were concerned about animal welfare, and involved in the debates as a result.

With all due respects to some of the Christian posters on this site, they aren't necessarily typical of how Christians are, and using them as a proxy for the wider mass of us is not a good way of understanding us.

Graham Y..thank you for posting on here and providing some balance and commonsense..the thread was started with a very unfortunate title of "Christians where the bloody hell are you?' and I felt, even though not a christian as such that that only alienated christians from this whole thread and what was the point of that?

I tried to say that the 'christians' out there represented by the media were not representative of christians,true christians in general...But hey, christians arent the only ones pigeonholed and who get a bad rap...poor old single mums..doing one of the toughest jobs I know,and Ive done a few, are persecuted by the media and then to rub salt into an already gaping wound are alienated by society because they 'buy' into the hype.

To Celivias credit she did change the thread and Ive noticed things have progressed far better after that.
I absolutely support their stance 100% in all they are trying to do,but we must be fair and I also ,along with the others are very interested in your posts.

Cheers.

Graham
The only question here is should churches take some leadership and responsibilty for Animal Welfare. The Answer Is Obvious.

We are speaking about The Silence From church Leaders regaring the very public docs on live exports and intensive farming.
I am SURE most christains who either go to church Or dont go to Church are as equally horrid as I am.

What do you think of the fact that Church leaders still! wont speak out.
I am all ears.
By the ways thanks for your comments. Ozgirl I agree with you.
I am not picking on good people. I will however expose the Church leaders.
Leaders
I said Leaders
SHAME

Graham

I am with Wendy on this one - the silence is deafening. Christians are very vocal on many issues from workchoices through to abortion. I have not heard anything concerted regarding humane farming practices.

BTW - it is not the quiet Christian I am concerned about. Plenty 'out' themselves on OLO and fail to assist on animal welfare; I have asked for help many times and my calls are falling on deaf ears.

As for my analogy - it was deliberately extreme in order to draw a response. Interesting, that you should point out 'church and state' - I don't pretend to fully understand Islam, however I do know that religion governs much of our politics today; Howard's appointment of Pell, Abbott's attempted manipulation of medical treatment for women. Therefore, it is not too much to ask that Christians stand by their claims that they are 'stewards' of this world and take action.

PS

I do know that many Christians work in animal welfare as I have worked alongside them, in fact this is why I am so absolutely stunned at the lack of response from Christians on the animal welfare threads on OLO - is this a reflection of the demographic of OLO - does this website only attract the, er... more um... bible bashing element?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Scout, they probably don't get involved in the issue for the same reason that I don't - there are so many other things that I am involved in and you can't be in everything. That doesn't mean that the issue doesn't get attention.

Re: church and state - appointing a Christian minister to a government appointment does not breach any rule of separating church and state. You don't stop being a citizen because you're a minister of religion. And as for Abbott's views on abortion, they may be informed by religion, but as he himself points out, he argues on the basis of logic and common ethics and morality. That he comes to a different opinion from others is no more outrageous than that a high profile atheist, like say Philip Adams, comes to a different opinion from him.

We all come with a set of values and beliefs - why stigmatise one particular set?

So, "Christians where the bloody hell are you?" was the title of this thread.

I can now visualize the fate of the people who say "Hindus where the bloody hell are you?" infront of "mother" goddess Kali's devotees.

http://www.time.com/time/asia/magazine/article/0,13673,501020729-322673,00.html