“Jewely has made a number of broad negative statements about men in groups and recently about white Australian's based on the values of those she choose's to associate with (and her intepretation of those values). Few seem to have had an issue with those derogatory statements. Apparently it makes sense to hang out with bikies and then judge all groups of men based on the mores of bikies. For that matter not all bikies behave as do those Jewely has chosen to spend time with.”

I was rather young hanging out with bikkies, 17 – 21. And I must add the people who I have met that have been rascist here weren’t of my choosing. I mentioned the gangs as an example of how men in groups can act.

I think maybe I am possibly the only one in this thread that has witnessed what happens in these situations, how stupid the femals are and how the grown men react.

“Gender wars will continue while some continue to think a person's gender is more important than truth or fairness. Gender violence will continue while some appear to condone violence based on gender. "and boy did he learn about name calling" - no mention here about the daughter learning about violence.”

It was made plain to me that hearing about my kids is boring… I actually realized that yes of course it is so didn’t say anything else. My girl worries me and I have spent her life trying to get her to think first… catch more bees with honey etc.

She has never seen any violence in the home, I never even smacked my children. My hubby and I don’t even argue. It’s weird, she’s weird. But girls like her, as was pointed out, don’t get in these situations as they are not walking victims but more walking perpetrators

Anti,
Your knowledge of psychology needs work there are innumerable written experiments that demonstrate social power. two of the most infamous ones were "the student prison" and the 'National guard authority test". Read them, both genders were used and it made no difference I gave clear supportive examples of the above principals.

1st person experience is neither scientific nor in this case meaningful nor relevant.
Think of this if you were a multi millionaire and an Executive chances are you may have power to abuse. Clearly neither you or I have that perceived power to seduce at will.

I believe in equity between sexes and where it doesn't exist then the stronger/more powerful has a responsibility to society and therefore towards the weaker. The misinterpretation/bias is yours. I repeat I follow Humanist lines they don't differentiate between genders, preferences, races, creeds.
FYI neither are they (I)necessarily Green,left, right nor a bleeding heart liberal.

Your definition of fairness in this instance appears to be culturally gender biased.

I no more support your notion of feminism/sisterhood than The footyboys group dynamics.
The former in extreme cases is an understandable over reaction to their perceived victim status ( with some just cause).

In this case as presented the feminist element is a distraction (furphy) as the others I mentioned. The clear issues are
1.inequality between the individuals involved (pressure to comply due to culturally influenced power imbalances)
2.Responsibility to community and the power weaker individual gender is irrelevant the same principal as bastardry in boarding schools , the military and any rigid cultural situation. (including churches sects and some corporations.)
3.Culturally inferred unacceptable public favour.
BTW I didn't say that the referendum was needed . The point I was making was that if one was specifically put up
1.how many readers would be prepared to vote for it give social pressure
2.and pointing out that it would fail because the majority of people would see their public behaviour as unacceptable.

Jewely thanks for the response. Have I misunderstood you?

I've been pondering your comments about men in groups and agree that some seem to exhibit the worst trait's. I've never been part of groups like that, I would not be comfortable with a lot of what seems to drive them. I've been part of groups which are mostly comprised of men but the binding factor's have not been toughness or rebelion. They have been groups where the focus would be regarded by many as nerdish. Not reflected glory for those who want to walk on the wild side but also not groups where mistreatment of others is regarded as a good thing. If you get to a point in life where you can get out more have a look around at some of the special interest groups (family orientated 4WD clubs, bushwalking clubs, astronomy societies, assorted nature loving groups etc). There are heaps around and in most onion's are totally off the menu. Plenty are friendly to new starters.

R0bert

jewely do not be too sure you are the only one here who has an idea how things happen with the young and sex.
We after all once lived the life at that age.
Women, often girls, pull the strings in such matters too, are in control.
Now in a western suburb of Sydney in the very early 1960,s, such a young girl lived.
Friday, Saturday night, outside the pub, or a greasy Joe hamburger joint, she invited group sex.
Without her? some blokes would have died a virgin!
Some got locked in a FJ Holden mates holding the doors closed until they let her have her way.
Not bikers, not gangs but normal blokes from normal homes who grew up to be police men, politicians, councilors, that girl?
She wed, found God, is the very strict mum and grand mum hers tried to be.
She is one of millions who have followed different urges than others.
We must not transfer the bad traits or different ones than ours to men only.
As I grow older I am convinced power is more in the hands of women than men in matters of sex.
And I still refuse to execpt white Aussies are more racist than others, but still know miss use of the word is an every day event.
If ever, yes ever, the name of that girl came up in print half the husbands in ten suburbs of Sydney would hide under the bed.

Jewels: DO NOT let these two try to dominate the way you post, by criticising your referrals to family. This is the character of such 'men':-

Tinkerbelly 28/5: 'Have you any doubt a girl looking for such sex might be unstable'. (NOWT WRONG WITH THE FELLAS OF COURSE).

Tinkerbelly 30/5: 'Still amused that some think that no woman in the world could be wrong on matters of sex'. (IN THE WORLD NO LESS!-WE HAVE A CHILD OF THE UNIVERSE IN OUR PRESENCE!)

Blowfly 30/5: '...woman participated willingly..'. (NICE TRY. NO SHE DID NOT!)

Tinkerbelly 31/5: 'This girl adult by age 19 (THE QUALIFIER!) hunted (SEE HOW ITS DONE?; 'HUNTED' NO LESS!)-she bragged before and after (BEFORE AND AFTER...THE WEE FLOOZIE!!)-she bragged mate'. (THESE ARE THE DEPTHS ONE SINKS TO TO DEFLECT RESPONSIBILITY).

'No way she was the only groupie (CATEGORISED AS A GROUPIE-AHA!...NO. SHE WAS NOT ONE OF THE GROUPIES. ANOTHER SUBTLE CONDEMNATION), to change her mind, no way the only one ever ashamed of what she once did'. (SEE HOW ITS DONE...?).

'My world, the real one...' (ABANDON HOPE!!).

Blowfly 31/5: 'But not 19 year old root-rats eh?'.

___________________________

There have been many views such as this, but only these two have resorted to this slimy rhetoric.

And you are surprised that I call you names?!?!? What grubby tactics you have used,-and you two have the bloody gall to to tell another poster how she should post?

Come to think of it, it is to be expected from Neanderthals who try to pathetically masquerade as intelligent men of the world.

The slime ball yes;-but you Belly? You hid this well previously.

I like Jewely's posts and have read all with great interest; including anecdotes about her daughter and family; where she has lived and so on.

Examinator; Ginx and many others likewise - I enjoy reading your perspectives. I especially like the way Examinator and Ginx cut right to the heart of an issue with such clarity. I wish I could be as succinct. All good - don't stop!