"I’m not sure that it is another topic pelican."

I tend to agree with you in principle Ludwig. In my opinion, we need to look at our obsession with consumption and growth as 'essential' to the current economic and think more sustainably.

While some of the changes will have to occur (by their nature) over the longer term, governments could be certainly paving the way by increasing spending on renewables and re-thinking populuation growth just as a start.

Even if Rudd is on the same wavelength for the long term the current crisis is something he has to contend with now and to some extent he may be forced to follow the 'rules' of the current system until more sustainable and longer term strategies can be planned and implemented without too many casualties.

Ludwig ““Although the ‘money directly where it is needed.’ Wrong”

Col, could you please explain this. Thanks.”

Yes Ludwig… it is possibly a broader question than merely pertaining to the current crisis but it is the question that says

Why should government spend on things which should be the preserve of private consumers…

Should favoured car companies be the beneficiaries of public funds or should they rely on the market for their competitive survival?

Thus … the tax surcharge which every car buyer pays could be removed and the subsidy which government pays manufacturers removed, one offsetting the other and the government withdrawing their “grace and favour” from the transaction.

Should mass transport services be heavily subsidized by tax payers or should it be on a “user pays” and cover the full economic costs of the service?

More meddling often with disastrous economic and operational results and in the case of transport particularly a fulcrum point for the unethical political power plays by unions in blackmailing operators and users(consumers) into paying uneconomic rates for tied services.

In so many ways government takes to itself authority for doing things but fails to pick up responsibility for the effective delivery of what it has promised. The Victorian public transport network being a classic case-study in managerial ineptitude (like BART was for design ineptitude).

"Rudd has strongly criticised the system that has led us to this crunch."

Krudd ran a Mee-too economic policy, he supported the previously existing system any criticism now is just rank hypocrisy (nothing new)

I hear someone on talk back radio suggesting Mr Rudd put Tinto and BHP back to work building a pipeline from QLD to wash out the Murry River. Great idea!
That would give people back their jobs and cut out a lot of costs doing it as well. I am sure the farmers would appreciate it.
Either way The Rudd Government only gave two hours for the libs to look over their plan.
Its only fair that the libs be allowed to do their job and asked for a couple more days.
I think Mal and the Greens will get a better deal for the eldery.
I also think its good to have nice schools but the kids need jobs for them to goto after they leave.

So funds could be better spread to acheive far more by using our brains and have several eggs in the basket.

Australia will be still suffering from this in twenty years.

Make no mistake. ALP do not have a good record wnhen it comes to spending or policies.

Give the libs and greens the little time together they requested
to work with the Rudd Government on it and lets see what they come up with.

Foxy, I disagree - Turnbull is doing exactly what a good opposition leader should be doing - seeking out weaknesses in the governments policies and publicising them. Having seen the Queensland government successfully transfer blame the to "maintenance man" for a nurse getting raped here when the lock on her door wasn't fixed despite months of complaining, and then hear not so much as a peep about it from the opposition, I'd take a Turnbull performance any day. Often all the bitching and moaning we get from oppositions makes them seem pretty lame, their behaviour in question time seem childish. I suspect they know they come across and idiots at times. Such is life for politicians I guess. But lame or otherwise, I now view it as essential to making our system work.

As for the policy's themselves - TRTL nailed it. The government is just following the accepted economic wisdom. Personally, it doesn't seem like the right thing to do to me, but I ain't no economists who has spent his life studying the great depression and what we might of done to avoid it. So right now I am just crossing my fingers and hoping they are right. It is a big hope, because frankly economists have a lousy track record compare to the conventional sciences.

As for those that are complaining about how the money is handed out - instinctively we would prefer to see the money put into assets that are going to be useful in the long term - roads, railways, hospitals, power generation and so on. Unfortunately those things spend ages in the planning stages. I am sure they see a need to pump prime the economy now as well as in the longer term, and thus we see a combination of hand outs and infrastructure projects. Again I ain't no expert, but I suspect there aren't too many ways to pump up the economy in the short term except via hand outs.

Foxy "I don't think that having any more debate on this
subject is going to help the situation. They've
spent entire nights debating it in Parliament...
It's time the package was passed."

that sounds very familiar to KRudds Choke direction, his unilateral guillotine approach, adopted by the Labor Hacks for the Senate debate....

Silence dissent

Choke opposing opinion

Leave the electorate in the dark to the real costs, details, issues, agendas and deals which we appoint parliamentarians to challenge freely and openly (in a democracy at least)

As far as OLO is concerned, any user can initiate a discussion here on OLO, with the oversight of the host.

I recall nothing in the "rules" which says discussion will cease upon the command of the thread initiator, unless someone has changed the rules from those publish and available to the great unwashed, of whom I am a proud and fiercely outspoken and independent one...

Speaking personally (as I always do) I will finish posting when I have finished pposting and not before.

If I wish to disagree with Ludwig or he with me (as is commonly the case - Eh Ludwig?)

I will and I am sure Ludwig will support my expressions in pursuit of free (libertarian valued) posting by all.

PALE "Make no mistake. ALP do not have a good record wnhen it comes to spending or policies."

I agree PALE... too many secret vested interests for any policy to be objective and of couirse, when did you ever see a Socialist government turn in a surplus which was not a roll over from a previous coalition government?

The levels of household debt virtually tripled in 10 years, to over 170% of disposable income. There was a 1000% increase in money owed on housing over the last 15 years.

With the economy tanking, and the value of our assets(housing,super) decreasing how does throwing us in to more debt help? We can't afford the debt we have now, banks won't lend when they can't be sure of the value of the collateral holding up or increasing.