Nicky,
"No live animal should be exported for any purpose."

So a family migrating to another country can't take their cherished pet? No future Irish/Japanese/NZ Melbourne Cup winners?

While "grossly abusive" means different things to different people, i too believe that animals should be raised in such a way that the producer is happy to display his/her practices to the public. If the producer is ashamed of any aspect they really aren't effecting best practice in their animal husbandry. Sure there will be those for whom best practice won't be enough, and quite likely never will be, but they weren't buying much product anyway.

A content animal is a productive one, there's no way around it. Buyers don't want poor stock, and poor stock are what you get if they are abused

Quite frankly I dont think Rojo or his friend Perciles are playing with a full deck of cards.

How you two can compare much cared for family members and the cruelty of intensive farming or Live Animal Exports is beyond me.

Ok lets say we adopted the idea of no pets.

RIGHT

That`s done !!
\
Now can we move on to discuss the topic on this thread. Exporting puppies and dogs that may be boiled alive in a pot.

Now do we have your support for that TOO

Or is it just your self hatred that drives you to pick on Nickys and Dickies good intentions.

Whats really your problem.

Does their compassion made you feel ashamed by the lack of yours!

Believe me- it should .

"So for how long would these "pets" stick around, if you stopped
feeding them?"

Just as long as the children on the streets Yabby, who have been reduced to begging.

"They are of course acting out of self interest, as does every other
creature."

You are one sick bastard Yabby - a coldly rational reject this country took in and whose callous and arrogant indifference to the plight of others has corrupted this forum beyond belief.

Though rest assured it is not just the evil of men like yourself which this nation needs to guard against but the weaknesses and faults we have in our social order, which you promote with sadistic relish.

It is glaringly obvious that on this forum, you are in good company. From the thousands of participants who debate on this forum, only three or four advocate for the humane treatment of the animals you regard as vermin.

From the school of hard knocks, I have shared my life with academics to alcoholics - all who have a code of ethics and morality which is beyond your intellectual capacity.

You are a useless idiot who wears a thin mask of sanity and who claims to have access to higher knowledge but seeks capital only for himself, driven by unrestrained greed.

Do not bother with your usual nauseating retorts Yabby - I am no longer at my post - a happy release from your toxic emissions.

Dickie
We have to learn to play by their rules. I was not surprised you were the only poster to seem to catch on to the very clear push towards Live Exports with the Movie Australia.
This is like the AWB all over again. We can’t afford to ‘miss’ these opportunities.
It took 5 years of us inviting others to join our work with Muslim Leaders to phase out live exports. Even then instead of coming to a well informed team of lawyers and others who knew who was who in the zoo they just had to try to meet them without those lawyers. The results have been a disaster for the animals with one of the main Muslims Leaders about to walk away from the position dealing with Halal. Or is that what you were actually trying to achieve Mr Wirth?

And People wonder WHY people like Yabby are thriving.
No Dickie I am not having a go at you or Cup handle or Nicky.

I am just sick to death of the attitude that if it’s raised by pale- Don’t support it.

Animals Australia and Animal Liberation need to point out that this Movie Nicole was in were to promote Tourism to our country AND that was all about Live Exports TODAY.
Honestly you need a better leader than Glenys IMO.
So who`s drawing up the bill for Dr Wirth to have things changed with AQIS re exporting dogs?
Who raised this issue in the first place?
Probably PAACT Or Lyn or Mark P
Whoever it was good on them
Can we now discuss what`s being done to change this law everybody instead of rising to the bait of Rojo Perciles and Yabby.

Cant you see they do it on purpose to keep us off the real matters raised by Nicky in this thread.
Just ignore them and talk about the changes to the law and what RSPCA National are doing about it.

I must admit that your reactions to being posed such a simple ethical dilemma don't particularly surprise me.

Although it is somewhat disappointing that some of you choose to impugn my motives, rather than address the question.

Nicky was at least honest enough to admit there is a question that needs airing.

>>I don't really know the answer to them; that is, where is the "line in the sand" to be drawn. I admit also that having my dogs confronts me with the ethical dilemma you describe.<<

...but then realizes she must toe the party line...

>>Is the pet thing a red herring?<<

dickie tries for the usual diversion:

>>you appear to have remained silent on the issue of the barbaric treatment of sheep, cattle, pigs or battery hens, therefore, I must presume that you meant to include these in your ban too?<<

I am against any form of cruelty to animals, I thought I had made that crystal clear.

In fact, it is that very concept that underpins my disgust that our society allows the keeping of domestic pets.

>>The matter of responsible pet ownership by owners who have a deep affection for their animals appears to be beyond your comprehension. These pets are not enslaved.<<

Then exactly how do you define slavery, dickie?

And yet another diversion:

>>try getting rid of an animal you have treated kindly<<

I am not advocating that you turn them loose dickie. Just that you break the habit. Like giving up smoking or drinking, it's saying no to the next one that matters.

Fractelle, I thought we had agreed to differ.

>>What I am trying to get at is how do you know that my pets are slaves? How could their lives be made better than what they are at present?<<

I'm sure you make their captivity very pleasant, Fractelle. But it is still captivity.

PALE&IF just insults.

>>I dont think Rojo or his friend Perciles are playing with a full deck of cards.<<

Predictable, but not particularly clever.

It is obvious that you feel uncomfortable with the topic.

So I'll keep going.

PALE&IF, you have carefully avoided answering even a single one of my questions.

Instead, you make petulant remarks like

>>Ok lets say we adopted the idea of no pets. RIGHT That`s done!!<<

The idea of "no pets" should actually follow an acceptance that it is an evil practice, and demeans us as human beings. So, can we try for that first?

>>Now can we move on to discuss the topic on this thread. Exporting puppies and dogs that may be boiled alive in a pot. Now do we have your support for that TOO Or is it just your self hatred that drives you to pick on Nickys and Dickies good intentions.<<

It would help if you actually exercised your thinking muscles before posting such tripe, PALE&IF.

I abhor cruelty to animals. I do not support the export of puppies for any purpose. The existence of puppy-farms appalls me.

As a logical extension of the same principles, I think that people who keep animals enslaved as pets are major contributors to the underlying problem, which is, that we have historically treated animals badly, simply because we are stronger. It's the caveman thing. Me got big club, you got small head.

Apart from anything else, you leave yourself wide open to accusations of hypocrisy, when you froth...

>>From the thousands of participants who debate on this forum, only three or four advocate for the humane treatment of the animals you regard as vermin<<

My assumption, of course, is that you count yourself as one of the "three or four". And - with some twisted and thoroughly arbitrary logic - count my anti-pet stance as... what? Pro-cruelty?

How do you work that out?.

>>Cant you see they do it on purpose to keep us off the real matters raised by Nicky in this thread.<<

Pure self-delusion.

My simple response to that is "Can't you see that PALE&IF and Nicky and dickie and Fractelle are obfuscating on purpose to keep us off the real issue raised by Pericles?"

Try thinking it through sometime.

What you discover might just surprise you.