Stevenlmeyer& CSteele

>> “We have to be careful when applying the lessons of one conflict to another. All conflicts are different. There are no "one size fits all" solutions.

>>” history says MAD works, so why shouldn’t it work here?”

Ahmedinejhad, Kamanei et al, have no parallel in modern history. Merely because previous regimes have been deterred doesn’t teach us anything about what the Islamo-fascists in Tehran might do. We are talking about religious fanatics whose greatest reward is to die in Jihad, fighting the infidel.

Mutually Assured Destruction rests upon the underlying reality of reasonableness of the principal combatants. But how can we rely upon the reasonableness of Ahmedinejhad. The man is clearly a zealot, he’s already made threats for god sake. Yet for some reason the lefties doubt his word. Why?? ??

Steven,

I thoroughly agree with your analysis of the IRA/Northern Ireland. It is clear that the same solution is the only viable one for Israel and the Palestinians. They need separate states.

Foxy,

Barack Obama?? The man’s a first term senator.

Fellow Human,

You say>>” In that deal Israel had to give back an occupied territory for a long term peace deal and it worked for the last 30+ years.”

This is a very distorted view of the actual circumstances. Israel offered the territory in return for peace. Egypt never had it within its power to demand anything from Israel. Egypt was beaten twice, so badly that they got the idea that it was pointless fighting the Israelis. Lets get that bit straight. Israel has consistently said that it will offer land in return for peace.

And now Israel has again shown that it is interested in peace by agreeing to a 6 month ceasefire. This ceasefire, if it is too fail, only benefits Hamas, since they need time to rearm and repair their damages. There is no benefit at all to Israel if this ceasefire fails. I hope it does not fail, however I hold little hope that Hamas is doing anything other than buying itself some breathing space at the expense of Israeli goodwill.

Two things Paul. The illegal occupation of Palestine is collective punishment. Every citizen is being punished by Israel and that means that every citizen may decide to seek justice with their own hands. No state on the planet can control all of it's population...that's a bar set so high it is almost certainly going to fail (barring a stroke of luck).

Next Israel benefits greatly from a broken ceasefire, since it still provides them with an excuse they can present to the crippled (by the abused US veto in the UN) and limp-wristed international community for occupying Palestine that has bought them decades of illegal occupation. This means they can continue their assassinations and detentions and violence toward often innocent Palestinians and the destruction of their homes, the increases of their settlements, which will make the cycle last longer.

Israel are the ones with something to lose. They have everything to gain by keeping the stolen land and inciting the Palestinians to even more violence.

Dear Paul,

Barack Obama is way, way, more than just a senator... - he's won the Democratic nomination as their candidate - for the office of President of the US - beating Hilary Clinton and her team.

He may just represent, "The Change we can believe in," as the placards say.

Don't discount him so easily.

ASymeonakis

I want to expand on your comments.

The best possible outcome would be a "Mediterranean Union" that includes the EU, North Africa and the Middle-East. I do not know whether this will come about. Judging by the growing opposition to Muslim Turkey's EU membership it will be a hard sell.

However, consider this:

North Africa and the Middle-East are next door to one of the richest markets in the world

They have abundant labour though, it must be said, Israel and the Palestinians aside, much of it is unskilled and poorly educated. Illiteracy is at high levels especially among woman. However these are problems that can be overcome.

North Africa and the M-E should be able to attract investment from the EU. At least some of the EU investment that currently flows to China, Vietnam and other parts of Asia could be invested in job-creating assets around the Mediterranean.

In fact it is a measure of ARAB FAILURE that they have managed to attract so little investment given their proximity to the EU. It seems EU business people prefer distant Asia to next-door North Africa / M-E.

Current the only M-E non-oil producing country able to attract significant EU investment is Israel.

There are signs that all this is beginning to change. Egypt has adopted a far more business friendly stance and its economy has experienced a growth spurt. It helps that they have a bilateral free trade agreement with the US. (But not the EU! Why?)

The Palestinians recently held an economic conference in Bethlehem in an effort to attract investment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7412129.stm

Even Hamas sent a representative!

So maybe Hamas us beginning to re-think its strategy. Their attendance at the Bethlehem conference plus agreeing to a truce may mean they are considering going for economic growth rather than war.

Perhaps their new motto will be:

MAKE MONEY, NOT WAR

We can but hope.

Steel,

>>” The illegal occupation of Palestine is collective punishment”

You mean the occupation of the West Bank, since Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza already. This is a ridiculous concept. Israel has said for many, many years that it will give the land back when the Palestinians accept Israel’s right to exist, and lay down their arms and make peace. This is exactly what happened with Egypt and Jordan.

Israel only occupied the land because of the repeated invasions by Arab armies. The two countries (Israel and Palestine) are still at war, why should Israel surrender or stand down? There been no standing down on the Arab side. The Arabs began these illegal wars of aggression that you so love to yak about.

>> and that means that every citizen may decide to seek justice with their own hands”

So you support the suicide bombers do you?? Where is the justice in blowing up a school bus, or a restaurant full of innocent people??

>>”This means they can continue their assassinations and detentions and violence”

So that’s why they occupy the West Bank is it?? So they can assassinate and detain and make life difficult in general for Palestinians??

>>” No state on the planet can control all of it's population...”

Israel isn’t trying to control the population, they are trying to best ensure the security of their people. Hamas have shown that, were Israel to withdraw unilaterally from the West Bank, they should not expect peace. What incentive then is there for Israel withdrawing? Far better to stay and negotiate peace for land bought with the blood of many Israelis.

>>” Israel are the ones with something to lose”

That’s my point regarding the peace treaty. Hamas has nothing to lose at all. It’s a sign of Israel’s commitment to peace and a sign of Hamas’ desperation. Hamas is most likely using this period to rearm and consolidate after their devastating losses recently.

Are you really suggesting that this peace initiative is Hamas’ idea and that they aren’t being deceitful, they really want peace, but the Israelis don’t??

tbc

cont,

>>”Next Israel benefits greatly from a broken ceasefire”

So Israel is making peace so that when Hamas break it, Israel will look like they are trying?? Is that what you are suggesting?? That’s such a no brainer. Because if Hamas break the ceasefire it means that Israel has been right all along when it has said that Hamas does not want peace. Have a read of the Hamas Charter and try and tell me that Hamas are really interested in making peace and living side by side without recrimination.

>> “By the abused US veto in the UN”

You must be joking, The whole concept of the UN is a joke. Arab and Muslim countries, voting as a block, are the reason there are so many UN resolutions regarding Israel in the first place. And those oil producing countries have very little problem getting other countries to vote with them by threatening the withholding of oil, or offering highly lucrative terms. The UN is a basket case because the non-democratic countries have a say. The Security Council is a joke because China and Russia (and France for that matter) have a veto. It’s a total waste of space. Just look at China's recalcitrance regarding the conflict in Darfur.

I don’t recognise, (although I understand you do) the right of dictatorships and theocracies to dictate terms to one of the few democracies in the region. The US wouldn’t need its veto if these countries were excluded. The Arab league voted against American resolutions 88.7% of the time in the 85 yes-no votes the US proposed up until 2003. Why should countries which deny their people democracy enjoy the fruits of democracy themselves?