Steel,

You’re an absolute hysteric, What are you, a fourteen year old girl??

>>”I believe Iran has a sovereign right to the[sic]whatever it wants, IF they so choose to pursue them. It's none of your goddamned business, …”

Mate I don’t whine, and on this issue I wouldn’t have to anyway, as my concerns are shared by many political leaders around the world. Your tone, however, is decidedly whiney.

“Its none of my goddamned business” Mate that is so funny, what are you going to do next,?? Poke out your tongue at me??

The reason Iran’s quest for nuclear weapons is problematic is their repeated threats to wipe out Israel. It’s as simple as that. If any of the other states were regularly threatening the existence of one of our allies then we would be concerned about that as well.

>>”the "international community" you think is so objective is actually extremely hypocritical and biased, western-centric and supremacists …”

It isn’t Iran’s mentally ill leader, their theocratic dictatorship, their brutal punishment to supposed transgressors, or more importantly their deliberate and regular threats against Israel’s existence which concern world leaders, which makes people uneasy, is it?? ??

You say >>”Now if you are a country being threatened by a superpower that has used nuclear weapons in the past…and has threatened your country on a regular basis, you have no recourse “

Who’s an apologist?? ?? I am happy to be an apologist for the US if the only other option is being an apologist for the Mullahs in Tehran. You can’t seem to make up your mind whether Iran is actually chasing nukes or not.

>>”with the same hypocritical mouthpiece lying about Iraq WMD making claims about Iran without any evidence at all...”

You’re virulent hatred of the US blinds you to the obvious reality of the situation. Iran HAS a nuclear program. They ARE enriching fuel, Why are you so gullible to the lying scum in Iran?? ?? Liberals like you would last about 2 seconds in Iran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

tbc,

cont,

You can continue to pretend that Iraq is an illegal war, but with the UN there on the ground I do not think you will be vindicated. I don’t accept the premise anyway, and there is plenty of support for that viewpoint. And you don't make it true merely by repeating it ad nauseam.

“The UN Security Council demanded Iran suspend all enrichment and reprocessing related activities. They imposed a series of sanctions on Iran for its non-compliance with the earlier Security Council resolution demanding that Iran suspend enrichment-related activities without delay. ” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

Saddam hid WMD capability from the UN inspectors for years. It took 12 years to find it all, while he played hide and seek with the inspectors.

It is of little use to provide you with evidence of Iran’s nuclear programs because you’ll only believe what you want to believe but see “The Iran Threat” by Iranian opposition spokesman Alireza Jafarzadeh, for example.

You say >>” The USA would be in ashes today had the man followed orders (something which I highly doubt the people put in charge in the USA nuclear arsenal would have questioned and held back on).

You highly doubt it do you?? ?? Tell me how this is anything other than you having a wild guess?? ??

>>”What class of radar do you use? And what other intruments do you use to idnetify an enemy (are they for example, equivalent to a US naval vessel of the time?)”

I’m an electrical engineer and I work on all types of EM detection. As above, see the “evaporative duct effect” as one example of the difficulties radar experiences.

>>”?) Do you realise the other circumstances of the incident? “

Yes the ship and its helicopter were in combat with a number of Iranian “boghammers”. It is highly likely they were anticipating Iranian air attack. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/3/newsid_4678000/4678707.stm
Have a look at the other potential interfering factors http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

See the Russian attack on a Korean airliner. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/1/newsid_2493000/2493469.stm

and another http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902 both during the cold war.

PaulL.>"The reason Iran’s quest for nuclear weapons is problematic is their repeated threats to wipe out Israel."

The USA has made explicit threats against Iran. Israel has done the same. Israel has held aggressive exercises recently that have been reported to be practice sessions for attacking Iran. They are both *actually* nuclear armed, unlike Iran.

Let me repeat this very clearly for you:
- US has nuclear weapons
- Israel has illegal nuclear weapons
- US leaders have *explicitly* threatened Iran (eg, Hillary Clinton claiming she would "obliterate" Iran. Others have said nuclear attack on Iran and/or bomb Iran)
- Israel has attacked and bombed Syria.
- Israel has held long-range airforce exercises.
- USA has stationed and increased the size of it's navy outside Iran.
- All are the actions of leaders (or politicans seeking such leadership) who have the capability to declare war.
- USA has invaded and occupied Iraq under false pretenses and spread lies about Iraq's nuclear capability.

Now this is your position:
- Ahmadinejad has said repeatedly that the regime in Israel must go, if not the state itself.
- Ahmadinejad has no power to make war.
- Iran does not have nuclear weapons.
- There is no evidence of nuclear weapons in Iran (exactly like the Iraq situation).
- Iran has not attacked anyone.
- Iran has not held war games off the coast of Israel or the USA, nor has it's navy stationed there.

These are all facts and it can be seen who is threatening imminent destruction on the basis of hysteria and propaganda. This doesn't include the historical chain of western violations of Iran, that I posted earlier in this thread.

As for the "wipe off the map claim", you are merely showing your ignorance again and reliance on the words of politicians who lie to your face.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Letters/History_07/Persia_220307.html
If you are fooled for a second time (after Iraq) then it's your own fault for being a gullible twit.

your qualifications are laughable in the context: Tell me, what class of radar have you used? Have you seen the profile of an F-14 and the passenger airline? Is this all theory on your part?

here are some things that you ignored seeing as i gave you the opportunity to read some sources that are referenced:

-=-==-=-=
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
"in the past "the United States has steadfastly condemned the shooting down of aircraft, whether civil or military, by the armed forces of another State"

"when Iraq attacked the USS Stark, United States found Iraq FULLY RESPONSIBLE on the grounds that the Iraqi pilot "KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN" that he was attacking a U.S. warship. (§4.49)"
-=-=-=-=-=

You should read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655#Iranian_government_account
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655#Independent_sources
which have references and is undisputed information.

The circumstances and crime against these people is sick and so are you for ignoring the evidence while proclaiming it was an accident, when there was criminal negligence and aggression.

-=-=-
Three years after the incident, Admiral William J. Crowe admitted on American television show Nightline that the Vincennes was inside Iranian territorial waters when it launched the missiles.[30] This contradicted earlier Navy statements.

Commander David Carlson, commanding officer of the USS Sides, the warship stationed near to the Vincennes at the time of the incident, is reported (Fisk, 2005) to have said that the destruction of the aircraft "marked the horrifying climax to Captain Rogers' aggressiveness, first seen four weeks ago......
-=-=-=

Steel,

You don’t seem able to clearly delineate the difference between cause and effect. You therefore have formulated a circular argument. Iran wants nukes to “defend” itself. The US and Israel are threatening Iran’s nuclear sites. Iran needs nukes to defend itself.

>> As for the "wipe off the map claim", you are merely showing your ignorance again and reliance on the words of politicians who lie to your face.

Says the man who, for reference, uses an unreferenced blog dedicated to the writings of holocaust denier David Irving. Now I know why you are so vehemently anti-Israel, you’re reading holocaust denial rubbish. If you want to be a gullible twit and believe that Ahmedinejhad doesn’t really mean it, that he’s merely being misreported, be my guest.. I tell you what, I’ll go with the view held by most of the reputed international broadsheets, and you can believe unreferenced Irving, a discredited muck-raker and professional bigot. Talk about gullible …

Here are other Ahmedinejhad quotes which put the “misrepresented” quote into proper focus.

"We must prepare ourselves to rule the world and the only way to do that is to put forth views on the basis of the Expectation of Return [the return of the Mahdi]." http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5166

The criminals imagine that by holding celebrations (...) they can save the Zionist regime from death." … "They should know that regional nations hate this fake and criminal regime and if the smallest and briefest chance is given to regional nations they will destroy (it)". http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSHOS43245220080514?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews

"The real cure for the conflict is elimination of the Zionist regime." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/04/wmid204.xml

"The way to peace in the Middle East is the destruction of Israel." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/04/wmid204.xml

"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/04/15/wiran15.xml

The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/800098.html

“The rage of the Muslim peoples will not be restricted to the boundaries of our region... The waves of the explosion... will reach the corrupt forces [i.e. the Western countries] which support this fake regime." http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP12040

tbc,

cont,

"So long as Israel exists in the region…there will never be peace and security in the Middle East. So the resolution of the Holocaust issue will end in the destruction of Israel. http://www.roozonline.com/english/015942.shtml

"…With respect to the needs of Islamic countries, we are ready to transfer nuclear know-how to these countries." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/16/wiran16.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/16/ixnewstop.html
See http://www.jnewswire.com/article/2417

If it weren’t for the fact that Ahmedinejhad has made many threats against Israel it might be possible to imagine he was mistranslated (by his own media organisations) but he has used the same language again to threaten Israel and this time there was no doubt what he meant. http://www.jnewswire.com/article/2417

Your incredibly selective and distorted readings of the facts make it clear you have no real comprehension of the situation whatsoever. So let me make a little list of my own and repeat this for you slowly and clearly,

- Iran is chasing nuclear weapons
- Iran is doing so in spite of UN resolutions to desist
- Iran refuses to negotiate on this point even though it has been offered free civilian nuclear technology
- Iran has explicitly and regularly threatened Israel’s existence
- Iran is the major supporter of Hezbollah, who attack Israel regularly
- Iran has other terrorist proxies carry out atrocities worldwide
- Ahmedinejhad was hand picked by Kamanei for the post of President, and together they have power to do whatever they like.
- Ahmedinejhad and Kamanei are absolute nutters who believe in the imminent and apocalyptic return of the Mehdi

______________________________________________________________________

Regarding the Iranian airliner:

>>”your qualifications are laughable in the context”

Tell me what qualifications you have in this area to even be a judge?? I’ve designed and worked on software which adjusts radar bearings and displays for interference due to the evaporative duct. See slide 11 AREPS 3.0 Environment Window for example

What the f@ck do you know about it anyway?? YOU don’t have any idea what YOU are talking about?