Hi all

I wondered how long it would be before PALE got onto this thread to discredit all the animal advocacy groups who have chosen not to work with it. Although I am not a member of any of these groups, I suspect it has nothing absolutely nothing with PALE's ideas of working with the Islamic community, and promoting slaughter within Australia and everything to do with how PALE goes about it (how it treats people who disagree with it). To find out more about that you can visit almost any other thread that mentions animal welfare and even some that don't.

Furthermore, I doubt if the United Nations is the place to take complaints about animal cruelty in other countries. A preliminary complaint should be made to the International Organization for Animal Health (OIE), and I think you'll find church leaders (and the UN) will handball it off with the argument that they care more about the starving multitudes of humans (not entirely attributable to the Catholic Church, contrary to Yabby's usual nonsense) than about animals. But you could give the Pope a try. But I thought your AFIC friends were about to favour us with a denouncement of the live export trade.

Yabby, I'm not even going to bother engaging in the same tired old arguments with you again. You know and we know what happens to animals in importing countries, and the vast majority of the Australian community (who may or may not be meat eaters) deplore it as much as animal advocates do.

But it's good to see you openly state what happens to sheep in Australia as well. You provide even more foundation for PETA's campaign about the cruelty of the Australian livestock industries. It also proves the content of this thread - that regulation and enforcement (and enforceability) of the livestock industries is totally meaningless even within Australia, since you apparently just brutalize your animals regardless, with complete impunity.

Nicky

Well Nicky, I'm going to let far more experienced people then you
with your silly philosophical agenda, advise me what the word
"brutalise" actually means. You use it more commonly then you
change your knickers, but then melodrama is part of your little
ploy, we know that.

As far Peta goes, despite their bleeding hearts, lack of knowledge about
sheep means that they will be responsible for the suffering of
huge numbers of sheep, should any farmers actually take notice
of them.

Its great to see more informed players like Fletcher, say what I have
been saying. ie. its ridiculous to talk of ending mulesing, until
there are concrete alternatives, one cannot guess the outcome of
the research and that is still underway.

Its also interesting to note that now that the price of Trisolfen
has come down to reasonable levels, quite a few farmers are using
it and are pleased with the results.

Even more would use it, if they would not have to go through the
present circus to obtain it and if it was made available at Landmark
and Elders stores, with a register, as we do for bullets etc.

But take no notice of what farmers and experienced people in the
industry say, for you clearly know everything.

Nicky
Not at all. Please dont say things that are untrue or that you know nothing about.

We strongly support the Humane Society. As well as RSPCA QLD and too many others to mention. WSPA have recived support long before pale was thought of.

As well there are also several Muslim Animal Welfare small groups that are moving mountains.

Before you ask "NO"- You cant have their contact details. Because Nicky all you want to do is cause trouble. IMO.

As a matter of fact NOT being with PETA helps the Animals when you are trying to talk to Government etc

Considering you have been bashing the name pale`s all over OLO for two years and praising PETA we have now decided to tell people why PETA hate us- Or so I am told.

I mean your attitude towards a bunch of Animal Lovers is quite strange. Most people would think a new bunch working for animals was good. Personally I think the more the better.

PETA and yourself do not think its a good thing. Quite odd really.

Sure I know we have different ways of handling live exports for example, but thats no reason to black list and group of well intended people.
Calling them animal killers and accusing them of only being interested in money from slaughter of Animals.

Thats pretty full on Nicky. So Nicky as far as PETA and their Australian friends working to black list our organisation like you that ok.

People can make up their own minds.

It really is that simple. You have chosen the extreme and we they latter.
We certainly wish EVERYONE the best towards their work to help the poor animals. So you dont think the Church should hang their heads in Shame Umm.
How sad you cant never see the answer - even if its put in front of you. Still at least you care which as you pointed out is more than most do.
Good Luck with Your Anti Pale campange for your crew.

Its served us well so far.

Cheers

Hi all

Yabby, I don't know where you got the notion that PETA or anyone else is opposed to the use of Trisolfen, and when I checked, it is readily available from veterinary surgeons. Doesn't sound that difficult to me.

And one farmer was quoted recently in the media saying that had all this research occurred earlier, you people would not now be up in arms about the 2010 "deadline". (I found the story at www.liveexportshame.com). But of course it only started when PETA exposed mulesing to the world, didn't it?

PALE, why would you imagine that I would be interested in the identity of your "Muslim animal welfare small groups"? I've already said I'm not. And why are we are STILL being regaled with the "blacklisting" story? You are as repetitive as Yabby.

You claim someone accused you of being "animal killers". But you never provide any EVIDENCE of anything, or answer what are normal questions any credible animal welfare organization would be happy to answer. You also still cannot tell us why, for example, if you do not raise funds, why there is a "PAYPAL DONATE NOW" link at your websites. Where does the money that people donate through that go?

You criticize "leadership" in the animal advocacy movement - it all seems to work pretty cohesively really, despite the fact that the different groups have differing philosophies and strategies. PALE seems to be the only one at odds with everyone. You even try to discredit Voiceless in the course of your attacks. You had a letter of support from HSI back in 2003, do you have its continuing support? Likewise RSPCA Queensland?

You really can't expect people not to respond to YOUR attacks on them and their beliefs, and try to cry "foul" when you are the worst offender of all.

Nicky

#you are as repetitive as Yabby#

Yabby at least you tell it like it is.

I can’t post to Nicky so I will post to you.

These people that ran the dark of night trying to cause trouble with our Muslim Leaders and take over our projects. Discusting behavoiur.

None of them has a CLUE what the work is - or about stock - or overseas connections.

Oh No. Bugger what been put in place so face working tirelessly. Bugger the animals. Lets just get in there and make sure we get the credit for this with the Muslim Leaders of Australia and farmers.
Bugger pale for making us look foolish,. We should have thought of this ourselves years ago.

Their a pathetic lot IMOP. I say again let us WSPA in your ears Handle with Care Hugh and that goes for RSPCA National who acted on 'in confidence' PRIVY business leaks.

So anybody who thinks we are mucking around should THINK again - 'Especially Hugh and RSPCA National.' Sure than can talk to whom they wish BUT its a matter of record 'they refused MANY meetings with Muslim Leaders along with pales lawyers for years.'

Its agreed Yabby we see the live animal trade differently but not the reason why the trade exists. To that end you have been telling it like it is a quite generous with your information. So as the others haven’t said thanks Yabby pale will.




We don’t really worry too much about money and I suspect that is” their real concern.” That and Glenyse`s and Ingreds ego`s IMOP



PETA for example have enough money and contacts that they ‘years ago’ could have used their power to put plants in each state of Australia introducing the latest tech and making sure codes of practices were followed.

That would have really been doing something to help the animals.

Ah Nicky, you forget that the pencil pushers in various Govt Depts
do not have the intelligence to make things simple, so complicated
they become.

The APVMA classifies various products, then the State Health Act
and Vet Surgeons act come into it. To cut a long story short,
if farmers want to obtain an S4, like some eye oinments for
pinkeye, like ACP to placate rams for shearing, like I think
Trisolfen too, to comply with the law, some vets make them bring
3 sheep on a ute, when they visit. These sheep are not even the
ones being treated!

So farmers waste a day, bring in the herd, load the crate, drive
100-300km and back with 3 sheep on the back, bring home the product.

WA farming is a highly efficient industry, that is not efficiency
and farmers simply shrug their shoulders and stay stuff it.
If it were available down town, they would pick it up and use it.

If you want farmers to do animal welfare, don't make them jump
through hoops to do it.

As far as Peta goes, they are just pushing for the end of mulesing,
even if far more sheep land up dying in the end, they don't seem
to care or understand. Trisolfen does not seem to come into their
debate