Hi all

Didn't I say that we'd get the same old claptrap from Yabby as we always do? The poor, hard-up farmers. Just to be absolutely clear, Yabby, what you're saying is that the wider Australian community supports the gross animal abuse endemic in this
"industry". Somehow, I don't think so.

A little bit of creativity with the meat industry and the government would go a lot further with the Australian community than your condemning your animals to what you KNOW is gross animal abuse halfway across the world and a lot further than your continual whinging too. And it's not up to us to do it for you either. Your business, do it properly, and you'll get less of a public backlash about what a bunch of whining freeloaders you are too.

Nicky

Nicky

*Didn't I say that we'd get the same old claptrap from Yabby as we always do? *

We get the same old claptrap from you Nicky, over and over again,
so I will repeat the answers, until you start to think a little
rationally for a change.

Yes, there were things wrong with the industry, but there have also
been dramatic changes and they are ongoing. Look at the changes
Siba ships are making to shipping etc, very different to how things
used to be. The owners are taking a whole new approach, compared
to past shippers. I think that they should be congratulated for
those changes, but all you can do is spew more venom.

Everyone is wrong according to you, apart from you and a few vegans.
The farmers, the RSPCA, various Govts, you name it, they are all
wrong, only Nicky knows best, despite not having a clue about
livestock.

What you call abuse and what I call abuse, seem to be two
quite different things.

All we get from you is lots of melodramatic language, lots of
sensationalism, send Australian farmers broke as a solution and
nothing will change anyhow. Think again.

Hi all

Yabby, Siba ships has/had:-

The "Uniceb", which caught fire in the Indian Ocean. More than 67,000 sheep burned to death or drowned in the NINE DAYS before any salvage or rescue attempt was made

The “Pollux” – Two detentions, 1997 and 2004
“Pollux” in 2004 “Certification and watchkeeping for seafarers, certificates for master and officer, Second Engineer do not hold flag State Certificate of Competency or Endorsement/Recognition; manning specified by the minimum safe manning document, Ship`s manning do (sic) not meet requirement specified by Minimum Safe Manning document; LOAD LINES, windows, side scuttles, Various deadlights for side scuttles/windows not able to be secured closed; Load lines, ventilators, air pipes, casings, One ventilator pipe at aft deck wasted/holed (Registro Italiano Navale)”

(Ventilators, air pipes, casings, Number/composition (according to safe manning document), Windows, side scuttles, Ventilators, air pipes, casings, Emergency lighting, batteries & switches, Maintenance of ship and equipment, Other (working space)”

“Al Mahmoud X V” , formerly the "Bellatrix" operated by Siba ships - Three detentions,

The “Becrux” was built in 2002, and was investigated by AMSA and AQIS in that year for “excessive mortalities”. On its maiden voyage and claiming “the ability to provide the highest standard of animal welfare and comfort”, carried 1,995 cattle and 60,000 sheep from Portland Victoria to Saudi Arabia in July. 880 cattle and 1,400 sheep died after the vessel met extreme temperatures (45 degrees) and humidity in the Arabian Gulf. The remaining animals were rejected by Saudi officials and had to remain on board until another buyer was found to accept them (in the U.A.E)”.

(Data from the Fairplay International Register of Shipping, Port State Control, Tokyo MoU)

FACT - not emotion.

I'd say change is a long time coming, wouldn't you? And the two bright shiny new ships announced in 2005 - whatever happened to them?

But NONE of that addresses the atrocities in importing countries. Once again - how many more millions of animals do you want to send these savages to practice on? And spare us the "change is happening" mantras, we have SEEN the evidence.


Nicky

Nicky open your eyes. Cars crash, people drive in them. Planes crash, people fly
in them, ships sink, people travel in them. It’s an imperfect world that we live in.

I don’t care if change has been a long time coming. If its coming and happening
then that is progress. Those two new ships are coming too, being built right now.
With the huge demand for extra ships globally, due to the China boom, you don’t
just buy them off the shelf either. From project planning to final completion can
take years.

You continue with the same mantra. They are all savages in the ME, according to
you. You bleat about sheep being hog tied. You know so little about sheep
that you don’t know that it’s the most practical way to cart around individual
sheep and is done in Australia every day. Clearly you don’t know cruelty when
you see it, as you know nothing about the species.

You get upset when a sheep has its throat slit, yet the same happens in Australia
every single day, all quite legal. No survey has been done about slaughter practises
in the ME. Just a few incidents highlighted, to feed the vegan propaganda machine
and raise money. Tearing at peoples heartstrings is how money is extracted. I don’t
buy it, its not objective information, by objective people.

I’ve told you before, if you want to change things in the ME, if they are as you claim,
it would be quite easy to install appropriate equipment, so that all animals benefit.
You are not interested, your only solution is to send Australian farmers broke.

But then sending Australian farmers broke is on your agenda too, so it might just
suit your agenda to play up the live trade issue for all its worth, to achieve exactly
that.

Think again.

*I can't quite work out what a pretty teenager has to do with animal cruelty.*
Posted by BOAZ_David, Tuesday, 17 June 2008 6:47:00 AM
Stone the crows David you never cease to amaze me. You cant see the connection between a young neglected kid with a bloody nose and a neglected old lady?
You cant see that animal abuse leads to people abuse.
Open your eyes David for Gods sake. These are his creatures too.

Mr Right. Your right of course about live exports. However for twenty years PETA and others have put out stuff like this over and over and over.

At one stage on another thread Yabby went to a fair bit of trouble to tell it like it is. To say what needs to be changed and to whom we must demand these changes are made.

In short these people cant be taken seriously while they black list others for working to reopen abattoirs in Australia.

We either slaughter them here or we send them live. We cant have another choice.
Now Nicky in particular protests our efforts to reopen abattoirs.
Thats pretty much the behind the scene attitude of these people.

Thats despite saying faze out live to chilled on their web sites.

No wonder why the poor animals never get any improvements and why the cruel live trade thives.
If they are fair dinkim about stopping live exports we MUST intruduce alternatives.
Nobody other than pale are working on that.

Kind of makes you wonder what really lies behind these Animal Welfare organisations.

People have dug deep into their pockets for years- What for.

They are terrified that people will think- Hey I would l;ike to REALLY do something for animals. I would like to help reopen some plants.
IMOP Its all about their fund raising - and egos. After all its not rocket science .

So why DOES the so called peak Animal Welfare in Australia and PETA oppose our efforts to reopen abattoirs and why did they refuse to help and black list us.
I think its pretty clear IMO

David

I have said it once or twice before to you but I hope you pop back to this thread.
I know I get a bit snappy but I can’t help my feeling of rage towards Church Leaders. If its anybodies duty other than Governments then surely it is that of all Churches.

Why can’t the Church leaders once and for all take this to the UN? Why can’t they help to introduce a proper bill of right for Animals?
How do you personally feel that out of thousands of letters sent out to Church Leaders in 2003 only ONE replied and that was to say they were busy with other things.
Then came a response from some of our Muslim Leaders of Australia.

Together we sent invitations to Churches and other Animal Welfare groups to work together with us under an Animal Welfare MOU... Muslim leaders in Australia have also spoken out about the cruelty of live animals exports David. What’s The Christians excuse?
Don’t you think that puts our Churches and Church Leaders to shame?

Why it is that group’s world wide such as PETA and many others are working to stop experiments on moneys bear’s dogs cattle sheep and horses while again the Church leaders say nothing.

They can’t have it both ways David. If they want to stick their noses into a woman’s right to give birth and anything else that moves of a political nature- then they can’t bow out of this.

I wish PETA and all the groups world wide would let Church leaders have it both barrels.
There’s simply no excuse for their silence about cruelty to Gods Creatures.

Of course I do understand that you personally don’t control Church Leaders.

What I can’t grasp a handle on however is why you and other followers are not outraged as we are.

I mean surely your sick of these leaders sitting back doing nothing.

Surely some of you want to jump up and down and demand they stop embarrassing you and CARE about Animals are DO something.
Aren’t You?