pale, I'll run it by you again. Sigh. What part of "I've never said they aren't able to buy our chilled meats" did you not understand?

The Middle East chooses to buy live Australian sheep/cattle/goats. They don't have to but they do. Something about fresh "wet" meat presumably, and cost I expect. Whatever the reason, they are purchasing live animals. Legally. I don't know whether they buy them live for religious purposes or not, what I'm talking about is the actual slaughter, which has requirements of a religious nature.


After the collapse of the WA court case what other reason is there to ban live-exports other than because of moral indignation toward ritual slaughter. Animals Australia etc. are focusing their protests on how the animals are treated in the ME, with particular emphasis on the slaughter method over there. Hence the photos Nicky refers to.

Thus my postulation that a ban on live-exports can only be taken as an attack on halal slaughter, and hence Islamic religion.
Similar recent reactions to kosher slaughter have brought about claims of anti-semitism. You'll also find the Nazi's banned kosher slaughter in the 30's - they had some severe intolerance issues.

Presumably since the Muslim community can accept pre-stunned chilled meat, they should be able to accept stunning in their own countries, which would solve the live export problem once and for all. Is that easier to facilitate with a friendly relationship or a hostile one?

It's really quite simple, local abattoirs should simply outbid the live exporters for raw material. Then there would be no live exports, and the ME will be climbing over themselves to get our chilled product. A win-win, and done on transparent business principles with no religious connotations.

Dear Rojo, you are becoming as sad as Yabby. It has nothing at all to do with religious intolerance and everything to do with rightful indignation about animal abuse.Stunning in the Middle East? Why would they bother? Australia happily sends them millions of animals that they clearly enjoy brutalizing. The photos, remember, are irrefutable evidence.

Michael2, welcome again, and thanks for (some of) the wisdom. You should understand the difference between mulesing (which is what the world outrage is about) and crutching, which is what the animal welfare movement is claiming to be an alternative. Crutching is simply shearing the breach area of the sheep more frequently (which of course COSTS), whereas mulesing is cutting off flesh and skin from around its backside.

I'm saddened too that you think that intensive farming is apparently okay - it isn't. Try those sorts of methods on your cat or dog and you would be prosecuted.

Back to Rojo. I sometimes wonder why people are prepared to spend 24 hours in the water to try and save a beached whale, but care nothing for the suffering of the millions of "food animals" slaughtered day in, day out.

PALE, I can assure you (yet again - sigh!) that I have simply stated that there are certain practices in the Muslim culture of which I do not approve, and likewise farmers. If anyone is guily of "trailing" (?), I'd suggest it is PALE, and the same certainly goes for "ranting". Like everyone else, Andrew Bartlett is entitled to take whatever position he chooses, and I'd suggest that he did pretty well, and achieved a great deal in his time in the Senate, in all sorts of areas. He is also one of the most intelligent men I know. But he has stood up to the PALE bullying, so of course all that would count for nothing.

Cheers
Nicky

Rojo

I will address the two following comments

Animals Australia etc. a....
pale replies
Rojo that is absolute nonsense. Perhaps you should read more before making comments.
Fact is All Animal Welfare groups world wide including RSPCA Australia have long rallied for the trade to be closed due to transport problems and the fact there are no laws in ME as there are here.
Here is just a part of what animal welfare groups world wide argue=
During the journey from Australia to the Middle East, heat stress and diseases such as scabby mouth, pink eye and salmonellosis are common. For sheep that survive the trip, a terrible fate awaits them in the hands of countries that have no or unenforced animal welfare laws.

Sadly, it is common for sheep to be horrendously handled and slaughtered in ways that would neither be legal nor tolerated within Australia.

Rojo said

It's really quite simple, local abattoirs should simply outbid the live exporters for raw material. Then there would be no live exports, and the ME will be climbing over themselves to get our chilled product. A win-win, and done on transparent business principles with no religious connotations.

pale comments

Yes Rojo that is correct. So the answer is for the Government to reopen abattoirs that they took a large part of closing down them in favour of this barbaric in return for huge donations to their parties.

We also argue as AMIEU have for years that the jobs taken from regional areas have detroyed many a country town and their familes.
Also Rojo this thread is about codes of practise in transport so perhaps you have some informed comment to make about that.


RSPCA and Animal Welfare groups world wide do not agree with you.

You can judge a nation by the way it treats its animals and Australia is the talk of the world because of its cruelty and lack of laws to animals.

Nicky
As I said on the other thread sadly your track record of flaming pale has led to our lawyers and others asking me not to even try to exchange posts with you.

Just keep up your efforts and stop your bitch comments because it was this that Hugh Wirth and many other RSPCA officials have for years pointed out back fires on the animals.

Hugh may not be everything everyone would hope for but he was right about this. Our own CEO has spent many hours trying to reach you and your friends asking them to stop the rantings and think of the animals.

It is a fact that in the history of Animal Welfare in this country it has been undermind by this type of school girl behavoiur.

We need farmers and world wide Muslim buyers united and its about to happen soon after years of hard work. Also as you know there are many corrupt people involved in this right to to top.
Do you honestly think that does not extend to some animal welfare people.
"Think Again."
"Do not be so naive and blind Nicky."

Rojo
Just to add to your comments on Animals Australia you make yourself look foolish.
FACT is they exposed what the Government are hiding. The Government acted on their evidence.
How discusting a lady x police woman had to there to do their job for them'.
The whole world is standing by their findings and sooner or later there will be laws to stop cruelty to Animals - including intensive farming.
So get used to it.

Pale

Settle down. Your attacks on Nicky are unjustified. Please refrain from becoming unreasonable when others decline your demands to assist you in your commercial ventures with your Muslim affiliates, in establishing abattoirs in Australia.

I reiterate that your Directorship of Halal Kind Meats, is creating a conflict of interest .

I speak for myself here and state that philosophically, I do not find it desirable to be directly involved in the slaughter of animals as you are, though as I have previously stated, I am not a vegetarian. However, I hasten to add that the more one learns about the abominable treatment of livestock in this country, the more repulsed I am becoming when viewing the contents on my dinner plate.

You have raised this thread in view of the proposed amendments to domestic transport standards for livestock and that is commendable.

We are also agreed that the transport of live animals overseas is inexcusable and that we need to point out here that Rojo and Yabby are peddling propaganda in defence of this disgraceful industry.

The way animals are being treated, both here and in the Middle East has nothing whatsoever to do with religion and similar to other terrorist activities, these brutes are exploiting Islam.

The Muslims in this trade will need to deal with their conscience since I have no doubt that Muslims who abide by peaceful Islam would be objecting to these misfits using the Prophet's name (peace be upon him), as an excuse to torment and inflict cruelty on defenceless animals.

I have many devout Muslims residing in my area. I have not witnessed these people cutting the throat of an animal in their back yards. They, like mainstream Australians, buy chilled meat from a butcher.

contd.....

B/forward:

It's an established fact that the Middle East countries purchase tonnes of chilled and frozen meats from Australia, slaughtered in appropriate abattoirs.

Excerpts from Arabian Business on an Australian supplier:

"We (Mitchell Meats) have two abattoirs and we're now processing both frozen and chilled meat for the retail market and wholesale markets in the Middle East. Growth has been strong, and interest has been strong right across all sectors."

"Lyon highlights the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt and Libya as particularly strong markets in the region, although Fletcher is also supplying other countries such as Bahrain, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/498847-producers-discover-value-of-halal-meat

"Rest assured if we advised that we would no longer export live animals to the ME, the Middle East would resort to purchasing our chilled and frozen meats exclusively."

The argument that Rojo and Yabby put up is fallacious since other nations, anxious to supply the ME with live animals, are rampant with foot and mouth disease.

Foot and mouth disease is reported in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and South America. While Pan Asia Type O virus strain caused the 2001 outbreaks in Europe and has been reported in many countries, the Asia1 type strain has recently been reported in a number of Asian countries.

The practice of permitting filthy cargo ships into Australian waters these days, which transport diseased, live animals around the world, places Australia's biosecurity at risk and the inefficiences of the AQIS are well known.

Pale, you advised Nicky:

"For two years you have trailed and flamed our organisation."

I have been on this forum for over two years and I see no evidence to support your accusation. Your outbursts do little to encourage participants to engage in dialogue with you.

Nicky's information has been most valuable. She is extremely well researched and helpful and has indeed moved this debate forward.

Let's keep it on track Pale. Attacking those who speak up on behalf of defenceless animals redirects you to the side of the opposition who are here for one reason - maximum profits and the violation of the rights of sentient beings.