Hi all
Makes you wonder what really goes on at abattoirs, doesn't it? The people who were infected by the pig in Victoria are not alone; others were found in WA, I believe, but I don't know whether it was the same disease. Rough justice, I reckon.

I'm glad my dogs don't eat processed pet food.

PALE, I have absolutely no influence over what other animal groups do, because I'm not in touch with them, so any representations from me would probably be pretty worthless (forgive the pun). They have their strategies, as PALE has its own.

As far as these proposed standards go, the more individual submissions the better, but everyone must remember that they must address what is there; some of the submissions to the National Animal Welfare Bill proposed by Andrew Bartlett back in 2003 were really too non-specific and sought to address what wasn't there. That Bill probably didn't go far enough, and if people do want to comment on what is NOT provided for in these standards, it has to be done appropriately or they will "bin" the submission - it's easy for them to say that they did so because they did not address the relevant criteria. Anything beyond that could be written as an Appendix, preferably referenced to some good scientific data. For example, WHY is it unacceptable for sheep to be on trucks without water for 36 hours? Because sheep need XX litres of water a day, temperatures can soar to 40 degrees plus, to do so at the discretion of the truckie is unacceptable because the truckie has a) possibly knowledge about trucks but not animals and b) an agenda to go from point A to point B in a specified time. That sort of stuff, I reckon. Also comment on the fact that journey times are not in fact monitored by anyone so when they cross state/territory borders the journey time can be clicked back to zero.

Just a few preliminary thoughts.

Cheers
Nicky

michael2,

Welcome and thanks for your comment.
Nicky said
Hi all
Makes you wonder what really goes on at abattoirs, doesn't it?
pale comments.
Yes Nicky it most certainly does. (Love the pun). Probably come head to head in the next few weeks LONG overdue.

Re abattoirs- I will try to dig out the sub from our friends suggestions of satellite tracking and video camera`s in all plants.
Good comments on the submissions . Lets face it how many general public have the understanding and time to go through all of that. This system MUST be challanged.


Nicky said
They have their strategies, as PALE has its own.
Pale comments- Of course. Still its united we proceed against the evil and I believe devided we fall.

Make no mistake we are fighting against evil men and many more woman now who will stop at nothing to hide the cruelty of their industry.

Have you seen LandMarks new add on TV? The good country Dad with his children? Enough to make you want to throw up-- the evil bastards.

I have spent some time reading through this thread and I am starting to wonder if any of you have spent any time out in the country in the company of farmers and meat producers.

Most of your contact with problems seems to be through pictures and articles all which have come to you second hand. I haven't heard any mention of seeing these things firsthand.

I am an ex city person who now lives in the country and am involved with raising sheep for wool and meat.

I too had concerns about the treatment of animals on farms. But now having seen and experienced this life I have to say that it is not as bad as it is portrayed by the so called animal lovers of this world.

Everything that is done is done for very good reasons. The welfare of the animals is top most in the producers mind. Because if they aren't treated well, you will end up with a poor end product.

Farmers hate to see their animals suffering. I have seem farmers with tears in their eyes when they have to put down an animal. (and by the way they do it far quicker and with less fuss than any vet)

Yes there are those who will do the wrong thing but believe me they are few and far between.

Get real, get out there and don't believe everything you don't see with your own eyes

farmers_are_our_greatest_asset
Welcome to this thread. I couldn’t agree with you more that farmers are our greatest asset.
The farmers you speak of our real farmers and I am please to hear a city person has joined them.
Our organization is trying to get the spot light on the people i9n the food industry that is not farmers however.
The Cooperate lots that have moved in and muscled out the real farmer’s yo9u speak of.
If we had more people moving out from the city to the country and traini8ng for migrants we could once again produce disease free cruelty free products,'

You would I suppose be aware millions of Animals are not so lucky to be raised on a farm these days and slaughtered at their local abattoir.

Farmers have been deceived by the nationals and Government for many years. Flooded their industry with cheap imports and hung them out to dry.

Put them right in the middle of taking the blame for this cruel live animal trade.
What about the intensive farm industry of birds and pigs unable to move?
There is no need to raise animals in such conditions and of course it is the reason we have bird flue and many other diseases from feed lots and other intensive cruel methods.

I hope more people will follow your lead and move to the country opening free range poultry piggeries and other products...

Good on the good farmers of this country. The ones that won’t have a bar of this cruelty.

Many of these farmers have supported free range against intensive.
It’s certainly good to know you support good farmers
As we do.
Ban Live Exports - and stop pointing the figure at the farmers. Put it at Rudd’s feet where it belongs!

Kevin Rudd How dare you let our farmers carry YOUR Shame!

You can judge a Nation by the way it treats its animals and elderly.

Kevin Rudd we won’t blame the farmers for closing the plants WE blame YOU for not acting! To reopen them and enforce some common decency inside them too!

Hi all
A cautious welcome to farmers_are_our_greatest asset. You should be aware that we so called "animal lovers" have in fact seen some of things we describe first hand, and nor do we condemn all farmers as a matter of course. Your views on the live export trade would be interesting.

You must be aware also that the film and documentary evidence (and I have taken some where I live which has resulted in police charges against saleyard operators and transporters) is not done by means of trick photography. You note that I have not included farmers there, although I have filmed at one property, where several hundred sheep died of starvation and the remainder were scored by a government veterinarian at "1" or emaciated, near death.

The problem I have is the different level of protection accorded to "farmed" animals, especially battery hens, meat chickens and pigs, compared to that accorded to "companion" animals. You may have noticed that compliance with "Codes of Practice" can form the basis of a defence against cruelty charges (and non-compliance can form the basis of a prosecution). But the Codes themselves expressly provide for cruelty, which is what this thread is about.

We believe that it is NOT okay to have "farmed" animals on trucks without feed or water for days at a time, and it is NOT okay to torture them with electric prods up their anuses when they have nowhere to move to in slaughterhouses. We believe that animals MUST be stunned prior to slaughter in these places (as much as some of us deplore the slaughter at all, in most cases we are reasonably pragmatic). When you say that farmers can put down an animal quicker than a vet, by what means?

Please keep contributing here, it would be nice to have views other than those of our resident Yabby and Rojo. I don't know about "greatest asset" though, assets come in many forms.

Cheers
Nicky

Hi again all
Last one on this thread for tonight.

www.liveexportshame.com has put up on its site all the links needed, and suggestions for, making a submission about these standards. I haven't read through it all yet, but it looks like a pretty good analysis to me.

If you do intend to use it, please do so as a guide only, and use your own words, it will have far more weight that way. But please also follow the format. Remember, individual submissions as well as group ones are authoratitive, and don't be emotional, be factual and cite references where you can.

The address to which submissions should be sent is there as well, as is the full document of the proposed Standards as a .pdf file. For those who would prefer a hard copy you can request it from the website as detailed at www.liveexportshame.com.

Cheers
Nicky