Alexandra

It would be clear to everybody pale are animal lovers.
Pale is not involved in owning abattoirs. We do have a programe working towards ending live exports encouraging reopening of plants in Australia which is the only answer to live exports.HKM

Question is =why are people trying to stop us? I think they need to answer that?”


The answer is to give farmers a good price by value adding.

Nicky says we are critizing libbers. “No” We are not overall.., not if you look back over ‘all our comments’ praising Animals Australia


How far does the rot go in the Government?

Nicky’s continued attacks on pale are a matter of record on OLO...

IMOP this is done on purpose.





PALE joined OLO as an institute member to reach out and educate the public about cruelty to animals in conjunction with RSPCA QLD.

We are a hard working long hours and mostly self funding. So ask yourself if you care about Animals why would you want to get rid of us?

Alexandra, also each Premier has powers to act under his or her state in Trade. That’s simply a fact.
Something else others ought to have been pushing on a State level instead of just Federal IMOP. = Here is just one example=
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:J77VIfHlx-0J:www.legislation.qld.gov.au/Leg_Info/publications/Legislation_Handbook.pdf+state+premiers+have+trade+ministers+reasonability&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au

Peter Beattie MP
Premier and Minister for Trade

Hi all
PALE, this is not an attack, but that link just takes you to how the legislative process comes about (in Queensland in this case). Peter Beattie may have also had the Trade portfolio at the time he was Premier, but how long has be been gone for? The only one in that position now is Carpenter in WA - and that's why they assign portfolios, so that they can sidestep the problems.

My experience with State governments, with various Ministers as portfolios change, is that they simply pass the buck and make it a Federal issue. Too easy. That's the problem with the WA case, unless an appeal can be brought. That magistrate relied on the section of the Constitution (s109) in which Commonwealth law over-rides State law, whereas s 118 actually protects State laws from that. But since the appeal was withdrawn on the instructions of a politician, in itself highly improper, we will never get to test that because the action has to be brought by a State authority (Solicitor, Attorney General, etc). The "standing" issue that I've mentioned before. So you can beat yourself up with State governments but they are just not interested because they don't have to be - especially now that that precedent exists.

And may I say, PALE, that you attack others far more than they do you? particularly those who choose not to work with you, or otherwise disagree with you. Quite viciously too.

Alexandra, you have no idea how glad I am you are real; I seem to be being accused of all kinds of subterfuge and collusion again. Keep asking your questions. Rojo has some good answers too, but Yabby tends to be a bit too self-interested for that a lot of the time. Rojo, thanks, I do get to most of your references.
Dickie is WAY ahead of me on zoonotic diseases too - thanks, Dickie

Cheers
Nicky

Alaxanda=

Nicky said

My experience with State governments, with various Ministers as portfolios change, is that they simply pass the buck and make it a Federal issue.

pale comments

Alaxanda= Makes a difference if you are playing in a big field. A Premier has powers to act under each state. I also told you her friends that years ago.

When you walk in the door with big players trust me they are different. We walk in with Commercial lawyers and Muslim leaders from Australia and overseas. These people are serious players even within Federal. Howver i will go one step futher. The buck for each State for trade falls at the feet of each Premier. Full stop. and transport health etc etc.

Premiers have powers to decide what happens in theior state re trade to a VERY large degree.

Now doesnt that make you wonder WHY others havent in years lobbied outside each Premiers 0ffice re live export and intensive farming?

re WA Case. I am afraid it is going to be a while before our QC can get to it.
Alaxanda we have never attacked anybody. To do so would be counter productive for the animals. Sadly we have been forced to defend our position . Even right now as we speak we have certain people plotting and making planes to go behind our backs seeking meetings with people that we have long invited them to meet under our mou regarding animal welfare.
We know that only big investors will end live exports by reopening plants.
They opppose that . Makes you wonder?

Alexandra



pale invited others to introduce an alternative to live exports and replace intesive with free range for years.!

Started only six years ago concerned nothing was being actually done to reopen plants.

We have lead the way working with Muslim Leaders and they dont like it.


We have also pointed out over and over again by protesting to 'each 'Premier it would have a more direct approach.

nicky is quite correct Alaxandra by saying the peak Animal Welfare body Animals Australia pete etc refuse to work with us.

What you should note however is we are working getting major players to reopen plants.

This is the 'only way ' to actually do something about live exports and we are the only ones doing it.
.

If your reading the other thread you will notice Yabby explaining the real reason for live exports.

This is what we have been telling others for years.

Yes of course we get a bit upset by people running around naked and rolling around with pretend blood on the. Why?=

Because its counter productive and reflects badly on all Animal Welfare minded members of public and main stream groups.

However we appluade those same protesters because at least they care about the animals.

Fact is its not their fault if they are mislead and misguided.

These same people who have been invited for years have already contacted some muslim leaders behind our backs. They know we hold a mou with regarding Animal Welfare. The Muslims replied again telling them that.

"So finally they get it."!Finally they see this is the way. Do they come to us and aoligise.? No.

So that might give you a better idea what is really wrong with Animal Welfare in Australia.

Too much bitching and backstabbing which we want "no part of".

I put it to you nicky has no reason to complain about fellow animal lovers. If she REALLY cared about the Animals first- she wouldnt!

Question is whats really the problem with her and her friends?

Why would you try to stop fellow animal lovers from helping animals?

Hi all
Did PALE not do some protest somewhere with strippers or the like not that long ago?

Alexandra, there are many ways of standing up for animal welfare and being an animal advocate, and that is reflected in this country by the different strategies adopted by the different animal advocacy groups. Animal Liberation and Animals Australia are probably the most "out there", with PACAT in WA. Animals Australia does not get involved in the protest activity PALE describes, and is invited by the Government/s to be part of various advisory activities. It also provides comprehensive information about lots of forms of animal abuse; that is to say that it is not a "single issue" organization. Animal Liberation, in particular NSW and Victoria where they are most prominent, take the alternative approach and effect some excellent protest activities. Neither group, for whatever reason, seems to be prepared to have anything to do with PALE. I'm not a member of either, so I don't know what is behind that beyond what PALE says.

An excellent source of information is www.liveexportshame.com too.

I don't know what the story is about who is, or has been, "going behind (PALE's) back" either. I thought they meant the RSPCA, but possibly not. Only PALE knows that. I have suggested that, to me, it doesn't matter who wins the war against live exports as long as someone does, but that didn't do me any favours with PALE either; it rather seems to be about kudos in the end.

Hang in there, there's lots to read, learn and debate. Try not to get drawn into some of the abuse that goes on here from time to time. Choose your own path, if you are in this for the animals.

Cheers
Nicky

Hi again all

PALE... really. You attack me, and all the animal advocacy groups all the time. Can you not see that? And can you tell us the last date on which you held discussions about the meat industry and/or live exports with a state premier please?

Cheers
Nicky