Hi again all
Yabby, sorry to disappoint you, but I don't know who or where Alexandra is, but whose fault is it that she is picking up on the facts of the matter? It seems to me that she is looking for the facts and asking quite reasonable questions.

You have only brought the argument back to the economics yet again, equating the animals to non-sentient, inanimate objects, and you and PALE continue to criticize the "animal libbers" for bringing those facts to the atention of the community and for making valid comment on the cruelty if this industry. THAT is one substantial contribution, I'd suggest, and a far more worthwhile one than the pitiful attempts of the industry to address this awful cruelty in three decades, which it has only started to do on a minimal scale in recent years.

In fact, it is a two per cent death rate (in sheep) that the industry considers "acceptable" on these journeys, and that equates to 40,000+ and does not include cattle, goats or the other species. You may have noticed that the AQIS reports are getting smarter at obsfucating the facts. They talk now in "consignments", and thus neatly avoid reporting on what should be far more mortality "incidents" than should be the case.

You also continue to sidestep whether you really think what happens to these animals is perfectly fine and why, beyond the farmers' dollars. Don't blame Alexandra for questioning the motives of this industry. Like most of us, she is probably wondering how you sleep at night by now.

PALE, correspondence I have received from the various State governments (the Premiers simplyt "duck-shove" the issues to the relevant Trade or Primary Industries Ministers) states simply that it is a Commonwealth issue and not one to be determined by State governments, so I can't wait to see what the Premiers have honoured you with (and how long ago).

Alexandra, I forgot to mention that a degree of paranoia is also to be found on these threads.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky, no disappointment, simply an observation. Perhaps she is
your partner. I really don't care, but I do observe and note.

Of course economics matters, its no different in your job.
You expect to get paid for what you do, so does everyone else
including farmers. We all have bills to pay. Only farmers depend
on your suburbanites to take our primary products and value add them,
to satisfy global demand for various farm commodities, for which
there is clearly demand. If you are so selfish or so useless, that
you cannot provide farmers with a reasonable price (it can be benchmarked)
for them to survive, we have to think up ways to
do it without you. The live trade is the result of that.

If the industry accepts 2% as acceptable and achieves a 99%
result, clearly they are doing well. I am well aware that no
losses will ever be acceptable to a bunch of vegans/veggies with
a philosophy problem, but in terms of experienced vets etc, people
who have worked with and know livestock, so are better informed then
yourself, without philosophical hangups, its a very good result.

What do I sidestep? That a sheep is hogtied? It happens in Australia.
That a sheep has its throat slit? It happens in Australia. I am
no hypocrite.

Hi Alex, apologies for the delay, we can only post 4 times/day per thread and I ran out. I'm glad you are real, because my minor embarrassment for being wrong would pale into insignificance compared to Nicky's if I was right, and I would feel sad for her. Could I ask the significance of the 0814, it seems awfully familiar.
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the Egypt abattoirs yet, so I can't comment other than I think there is only one accredited to take Aussie animals. I was under the impression trade was halted to Egypt by our govt and resumes with retrictions, bad behaviour to result in resuspension.

I don't make any money out of live exports, or livestock at all for that matter.

Nicky, if you read my posts carefully it's not actually about dickies typo/freudian slip on TSE/BSE, it's about the intent behind the statement either way. I specifically asked for a reference on this at least twice. More importantly TSE does not have anything to do with BSE unless it involves vCJD. dickie, obviously well versed in BSE would have known this, and since we were specifically talking about animal diseases, a canadian woman diagnosed with TSE has no more relevance than one who broke her leg[canada has only had one vCJD case - in 2002]. A simple ref would have cleared this up when I pointed out B means bovine in BSE, or at anytime thereafter.

It doesn't bug me in the slightest that dickie references things, even if they are out of date. Does it bother you that I do? Where I don't feel free to ask and I will provide, I try hard to be accurate. I would have thought those ships were modified on purpose, they don't just throw the sheep in the oil tanks or strap them to car carriers, and not in containers (from Australia).

I claimed in an earlier post that I would no longer debate on this thread. However, since Rojo has seen fit to breach the OLO protocol by transferring the contents of one thread to another, I have an obligation to advise posters on the definition of TSE and its relevance to the animal disease of BSE (mad cow disease) and its risk to humans.

I have already alluded posters to my typo of “BSE” rather than “TSE” on the correct thread: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1666&page=0

That Rojo believes I would intentionally refer to a human disease as "bovine" is ludicrous.

Rojo’s maniacal and petty obsession with this typo has seen him scramble onto this thread denying that the term TSE has any relevance to BSE:

Definitions:

TSE — transmissible spongiform encephalopathy, a general term for infection in humans and all animals

BSE — bovine spongiform encephalopathy, refers to specific TSE in cattle, also known as mad cow disease

Kuru — specific TSE in humans (overlaps with CJD=Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, also a human TSE).

TSE: Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy is a disease of the neurological system - spongy degeneration of the brain with progressive dementia. Examples in humans include CJD and kuru. Among animals: scrapie and BSE.

vCJD is the human form of BSE in animals.

Classical CJD in humans is not caused from the BSE prion.

It should be emphasized that a definite diagnosis of any form of CJD can only be given by brain tissue examination after death. Each individual case of CJD can be assigned to one of three subtypes: sporadic, genetic or acquired. The considerations for diagnosis vary depending on the subtype.

I advised that April 2008 saw 19 diagnoses of CJD in Canada, however, I was not inferring that these CJDs were from a bovine source - only of that potential.

Therefore, each emerging case of CJD has the potential to be of animal origin.

The Australian Government in March 2007 advised one possible explanation for the lack of identification of vCJD so far in Australia is clinical misdiagnosis or non-identification, but this is considered unlikely.

contd......

The World Health Organisation Consultation Committee recommended that autopsy be strongly encouraged in any suspect case of CJD. Where autopsy is not possible or permitted, postmortem biopsy of the brain should be sought.

Currently 2 Quebec deaths are being investigated for CJD and extreme precautions are being conducted to prevent any risk of this infection spreading.

Experts predict that the variant type of CJD will continue to emerge in humans for decades.

Rojo’s pettiness and self-interest should be ignored. My motives are altruistic and I again stress, zoonotic diseases in humans are increasing. This has the potential to create global epidemics of massive proportion.

Authors of an article in the medical journal Lancet, have hypothesised that the habit of feeding human remains to livestock could have resulted in cattle contracting BSE.

That the livestock industry has been permitted to carry on “business as usual” in its abominable treatment of livestock is beyond comprehension.

Hello again everyone. Rojo, I think I'm real. The significance of 0814 is that it is an old number plate I had I thought that my name (Alexandra) on its own would be taken. I hope 0814 is not a commonly used number because I use it for all sorts of things because I can always remember it. I don't actually have a partner at the moment either.