'Absolutely' many comments have been an enormous help- . Lets do as Dickie suggests and keep on track.

pale would like the public to know, not all groups oppose farmers and blame Muslims. We also would prefer people dont try to tell us what we may say.

We are sincerly confused, by the reaction, of 'some' by our work, to unite farmers, with overseas buyers. Anybody reading our years of comments would know we care deeply about animals.

While nearly all web sites read replace live with chilled - its think pretty clear, what happens ,if any group actually takes a step further 'to make that a reality.'

Surely again the last few comments in this thread highlight that quite clearly.

frankly someone has to do it.

We know its hard to ask people to look what they are saying, much less, and reconsider their position.

For the sake animals we ask people to do just that.

Its understandable people have a fixed mind set . I think re surfacing the same material is counter productive TBO

Working 'with' instead of against farmers is the best thing for animals.

Live animal exports should never have been laid at the feet of the farmers. To lay the blame at the feet of the farmers is playing into the hands of the real culprits-( The live Animal Shipping Agents)

I will dig out the last sub for transport cosed of practise worked out by Muslim people along with pale and the assistance of RSPCA QLD.

There are some interesting ideas about tracking devices etc

Of course Aussie Muslims can’t take over the trade issues of this country or any other and would not be expected to.

However with support and friendship from people interested in Animal Welfare you would be surprised how many Muslim Animal Welfare groups would spring into life.

Lets put the animals first and make that happen. For The Animals.

Ban Live exports and replace with chilled.

Dear Yabby, I really can't be bothered arguing the same points with you over and over, particularly when you advance no sound arguments. There is no justification for the vast amount of taxpayers' dollars thrown at this industry, or the significant LACK of dollars expended on real animal welfare in this country. The live export industry did not attempt any improvements, despite admitting back in 2001 that it was aware of the torture of cattle (and slashing leg tendons and stabbing eyes is torture, not histrionics) in Egypt, and as each scandal has erupted, it has simply gone into damage control. Not very successfully, either, the next scandal is probably not too far off.

As I said - the blind leading the blind. Animal abusers "training" worse animnal abusers, not very many and not very well, as has been proven time and time again.

Comparatively speaking, dogs (and cats) receive far better protection under Australian animal welfare laws that "farmed" animals do, given the Codes of Practice that protect the abusers. But I'm not going to bother going there again either.

No animal advocacy organization worthy of the name would be expnding its limited funds to assist this sickening trade.

I've also decided not to engage in further discussions with PALE. If it needs information it will have to seek it elsewhere.

Cheers
Nicky

*Ban Live exports and replace with chilled.*

No Gertrude, no need to ban anything. We have been
through all this crap before in Western Australia.

Half the problem we have right now in WA, is due to
Govts trying to run meatworks. It was a dismal failure.

Lots of beurocrats, farmers got screwed. Farmers coops
don't work either, the managers do as they please.

The only solution is healthy competition by large players,
all the rest has proven to be a dismal failure.

Don't tell farmers that they should run as businesses, then
try to deny them global markets and supply a captive one,
where they get screwed.

All these sheep are for sale each week, to the highest bidder.
If there is so much value in them, buy them, value add and
pay farmers a price where they can make a living, like anyone
else.

We need T&R, the Brazilians and Fletcher in the WA market,
not just the present situation, which is a virtual monopoly
for Fletcher. He is not a charity, he pays not a penny more
then he needs to.

A free and open market is the solution. Our present problems
are because it was not allowed to function in the past, as
Govts dictated things and limited competition.

The live trade is just another competitor in that market.

Yabbs-

Half the problem we have right now in WA, is due to
*Govs trying to run meat works*. *It was a dismal failure.*

PALE-
Interesting comment. Would you be happy a little later for us to go back and discuss why that might have been the case.

Yabbs-
*Lots of bureaucrats, farmers got screwed*.
Pale.
Now you’re talking - Yup.

Lots of bureaucrat’s farmers get screwed. = That's right. 'Prefect.

All the more reason for farmers to deal direct.

For WA farmers to meet Muslim buyers on their own farms and Saudi and others to invest in plants and arranged for training especially in aboriginal and regional areas is one programmed.

They won’t let the staff into Australia as you know. Abattoirs are the only trade where unreasonable conditions were set. It kind of brings your words back home to us doesn't it? =

=*The only thing stopping it is the bureaucrats*.

Yabbs said
The only solution is healthy competition by large players,
All the rest has proven to be a dismal failure.

Pale
I agree one hundred percent.

Yabbs said
Don't tell farmers that they should run as businesses, then
Try to deny them global markets and supply a captive one,
Where they get screwed.

Pale replies
Agreed, however Yabbs, that's how the bureaucrats* set it up. It’s been *instilled* into farmers that they need them.

When actually it’s the other way round. It’s the bureaucrats that need the farmers.

After all what's a farmer without a bureaucrat? = he's still a farmer.

But what's a bureaucrat without a farmer= Up # creek without a paddle.*

We just have to take back our power. We have to put them in their place.

Yabby, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Stop bitching about the bureaucrats and the meat industry and do something about fixing it. But if you did, you'd have nothing to argue about, would you?

Something a bit rational would make a nice change. This thread has pretty much run its course too, I think.

Nicky

*Something a bit rational would make a nice change.
Nicky*

Ah, you mention the rational, then go ahead and quote your name.
You have been on OLO for a bit and would know that it will be put
there for you, with each post. So how rational is that?

Nicky dear, you are just not the smartest of girls sometimes and
it shows in your emotive posts.

As to the meat industry, I've told you, I am a commentator, not
an activist. I am working on a few things, but not things I intend
to discuss on OLO. I've told you before, WA has no labour, they
have all gone mining. Best to put sheep on a boat and sail them
off somewhere else. They are fed and watered, gaining weight,
which is not the case with trucking.