Nicky Dickie

We have already offered you and others a full legal team to sort this out.

The fact AA and yourselves choose to ignore that is too bad for the Animals.
I have said plenty of times pale has several lawyers as members. I am not refering to young enviomental ones either.

It really is now up to you all to consider doing what is best for the Animals.

Now I am going to get one of those lawyers to contact AA next week.
So if the assistance is regected once again dont blame us.

Yabby you in particular could have done something towards opening plants by meeting with Me and reps from Asia.

You choose however to allow animals to travel long distances and suffer what they do.

I know this much it might take a while- It might even take longer but anybody involved in this evil trade onday will meet their karma.

Hi again all

PALE, I don't know what Dickie's position is, but what would I do with a legal team? I have no standing to mount an appeal, I think you will find that only political pressure is going to work, unless Animals Australia is working behind the scenes; possibly going to a higher court. I know that they have legal experts as well - one in particular is just excellent; I attended the Animal Law Conference at the University of NSW last year, which was great.

You have to have standing to appeal a decision in such a case (as the WA Solicitor General has), and I don't know the relationships and court structures in WA well enough to make any valid legal comment here.

As I said earlier, I am not in a position to communicate privately, or to attend meetings, particularly at present, and I don't know enough to make the sort of contribution I think you're looking for anyway. All I can do is provide the information I DO know.

As for Yabby, he seems to prefer to comment from the sidelines, and maybe has his reasons for doing so too - I don't know. But just reading the remarkable propaganda at www.liveexportcare.com, MLA claims to have "trained 500 stockmen" (note men) in the Middle East - given the obscene number of animals they import that's hardly a startling achievement in all these decades. And Animals Australia filmed those exact, same, "trained" people brutalizing Australian animals AFTER their "training". You have to question things like, for example the content and duration of the training, and note that the "trainees" most likely do not even speak English, or have any real commitment to the great largesse of this "training". And what qualifications do the "trainers" have an Education?

I think we'll probably see that Animals Australia is not going to be beaten on this, and still has some cards to play. Good luck with your negotiations there.

Cheers
Nicky

http://www.law.usyd.edu.au/slr/slr30_1/Gerangelos.pdf
http://www.animalsaustralia.org/media/in_the_news.php?article=82

Magistrate Rules that Live Export is Cruel
8 February 2008
In a landmark animal cruelty trial, a Perth magistrate has today ruled that Australia's live export industry is cruel.

"Magistrate Crawford's finding is not only damning for the industry, as this was a routine shipment," said Animals Australia's Director, Glenys Oogjes, "but politically it is groundbreaking. There is now immense pressure on the Federal government to respect state law."??>

DEFINITION OF DOCTRINE OF SEPARATION OF POWERSProbably the leading modern work on separation of powers is by Professor Vile, published in England in1967:"Constitutionalism and the Separation of Powers" where the following definition is given:A 'pure doctrine' of the separation of powers might be formulated in the following way: It isessential for the establishment and maintenance of political liberty that the government be dividedinto three branches or departments, the legislature, the executive and the judiciary. To each ofthese three branches there is a corresponding identifiable function of government, legislative,executive, or judicial. Each branch of the government must be confined to the exercise of its ownfunction and not allowed to encroach upon the functions of the other branches. Furthermore, thepersons who compose these three agencies of government must be kept separate and distinct, noindividual being allowed to be at the same time a member of more than one branch. In this way

Nicky

Understand Your position. Pitty though Robert and the crew have offered to do it. You know AA dont talk to us.

What would you do with a legal team? There people Nicky. I guess have a yack on the phone and have a whole fresh view of what they think they can get up on .

"I just cant take anymore on at the moment". Nicky as for this SH about them training and all the other rubbish- I posted something on the meat thread but I thought you might miss it because you said you were going away and in a rush.

I might whip it up here as your thread is about law and order so I guess that could include ....

You will note Yabby stopped posting as usual.

In short its fresh off the Maylasian Journal which isnt made public here. It written by them and hosted on the AFIC site but you have to have pass words to read it.

Anyway I am sure Yabby you didnt miss the bit about the bolt guns.

Umm, There goes your lots story on Halal Having to be slaughtered without using bolts. Oh Yeh the old fairy tale they have got very little refigration in ME.

Back to Nicky- Its late and I wonder hows the foot? The MLA Livecourpe thumbing their noses at RSPCA clearly with Government support (giving six young ones to promote the live trade)

while giving the red meat and abattoir industry 'NO' Ambassitors says it all!

Cries for an enquiry into MLA have been around a long time.


I recall when the person in charge at MLA said to me regarding finding support to promote reopening abattoirs= "NO" because that would effect live exports and that's "Mark Vailes personal baby."

Ian Ross MLA cheif contacted me by phone and said Quote.

We wont be doing anything to compete with live exports??

Bring on the enquiry into the WA case and Bring on the MLA enquiry and WE will demand the terms of reference!

*we are talking about people who still publically flog, imprison and stone to
death female rape victims*

Nicky, its overdue that you get off your arrogant Western high horse! Not so
long ago, they still gassed 6 million to death in the “civilised West”.
In America they electrocute people etc.

The ME is undergoing dramatic changes. Have a look at Dubai. But changing
culture takes time, does not happen overnight. That it is happening at a rapid
pace, cannot be denied however.

Yes the odd person is still stoned in Iran, they are not Arabs and we don’t send
our sheep there. The point is Islam teaches that Muslims should be kind to animals
and the fact that the animal welfare lobby is not using this to help bring about
change to improve animal welfare, shows me that if the animals are not Australian,
you clearly don’t care.

You complain about how a cow is slaughtered. Rest assured its not easy without a
restraining box. That is exactly why Australian farmers have bankrolled a whole
pile of restraining boxes, so that now most cattle in Indonesia are put through them.
That is positive change, positive for animal welfare. What have you done? Nothing.

The same sort of equipment for sheep and cattle in the ME could make a huge
difference for all animals slaughtered there. Rather then having to spend money
fighting off you fanatics, we farmers could be speeding up
those sorts of programmes. Or you could chip in and help and actually make a difference to
animal welfare in the ME.

*We can only fix what we can in
Australia(i.e. ban it), and hope to influence other countries to do the same.*

Hogwash. You can be proactive and bring about real changes. Like installing
equipment, Australian technology etc. Australia is reasonably experienced
when it comes to animal handling and making suitable equipment. There is
no reason all that can’t be rolled out in the ME. Combine that with the
Islamic view that requires Muslims to be kind to animals and you are going to
make progress.

Dear Yabby ...

From ABC News last November:

17 Nov 2007

A Saudi court has increased the sentence given to a gang rape victim to 200 lashes of the whip and six months in prison

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/17/2093611.htm

Note SAUDI ARABIA, and that is "customary" in Sharia Law, practiced in most Middle Eastern countries. It has nothing to do with Western arrogance, it is completely unacceptable in any decent society. Or do you agree with such behaviour? As for the teachings of Mohammed of kindness to animals, we've seen undeniable evidence of how much these people enjoy brutalizing them on film.

Your comments about the holocaust are interesting. Like your comments about capital punishment (I think these days it is by lethal injection), abortion and the Catholic Church, it is just another "red herring".

It is the Australian government (with taxpayers' dollars) which claims to be funding "improvements" (that is clearly stated in a letter I received last week)- not Australian farmers, who, by sending their animals, demonstrate clearly thst it is the dollard that matter, and that they have absolutely no concern for the fate of the animalsd they send.

I take it that you find the methods used on cattle at Bassetin slaughterhouse acceptable then. The last Sixty Minutes story described ONE restraining box, which had never been used.

And no animal welfare group worthy of the name will contribute to this atrocity.

PALE, Thanks for that Separation of Powers material; it saved me going back through loads of work to find a recognixed definition. I was thinking too, that since I'm not a member of any organization, any contribution I couod make would not have much credibility. I do think that the Australian public should be told exactly how many taxpayer dollars have gone to MLA for live export support though. Your Robert may find with the WA case that the only person with standing would be the WA Solicitor General, so the matter should probably be appealed to him/her, or taken to a higher court.

Cheers
Nicky