PALE, I guess you don't know until you try. And the fact remains that you would still have to have standing to bring an challenge, that's why I think political pressure is the only thing that will work. Most of the information I've got has come from stuff that I've researched, and from www.liveexportshame.com, where there is a huge volume of background. Beyond that, Animals Australia is the only place where the background and evidence for this particular case would be held. Not being a member of any group myself, I have neither standing nor credibility in that sense (that sense only, Yabby, before you start!).

There was talk when the FOI reports were released about some action in Tasmania over the "Al Messilah" shipment in February 2006, but as I understand it, Tasmania's Animal Welfare Act has a statute of limitations of 6 months, so that was well over by the time the reports got out. It would possibly have failed on the same grounds anyway (i.e., cruelty proven but Commonwealth law over-riding State law.

I can't recall any mortality events arising out of Queensland shipments, but there is the current case of the goats in the Northern Territory.

I think that trying to mount any sort of legal challenge would fail on the basis of standing. The WA Solicitor General, I suspect, would be the only person who can be prevailed upon to act, unless perhaps the Writ of Mandamus instrument could be used again to force him/her to act (carry out a duty).

Cheers
Nicky

Nickysaid

PALE, I guess ...

Palecomments
I am trying Nicky. Trying to work out which is the most practicle move. I still come back to the reopening on Australian Abattoirs along with Agreed improvements for Animals.

Nickysaid
And the fact...

Pale
Yes correct. Leave that to the fellows. They are not enviromental lawyers. See runing it differently.

Nickysaid
that's why I...
pale
No Nicky No. Political pressure will NEVER succeed alone. Dont you believe it. Unless: There is a alternative on the table with powerful backers. The Government need that and also must be seen to be reasonsible to the farmers who have been blindly willingly or unwillingly made realiable on the evil trade.

Nicky-
Most of the information www.liveexportshame.com, ...

pale
Yes Dawn Lows work- Shes Brilliant, WA

Nicky-
Beyond that, Animals Australia ....
pale... umm, thats never going to happen- I guess we could request RSPCA furnish them.

Nicky said
I have neither standing nor credibility in that sense (that sense only, Yabby, before you start!).

Palecomments
No No nicky your incorrect. A person or people is perfect- Cant be dismissed as exteme running with groups- its best.

Nickysaid
but as I understand it, Tasmania's ...

palecomments
No Nicky someone is being ill advised. Not if there was a complaint made 'within' the six months?

Dont take this the wrong way but enviromental lawyers are not familar enough with playing the courts and the legal loop holes.

They have been told that - buts it incorrect!

Nicky
goats in the Northern Territory.

Pale- Theres a lot more than that IN QLD

Nicky
I think that trying to mount any sort of legal challenge would fail.

Pale - I dont. Has to be run another way thats all. Its VERY tempting

Goodnight Nicky Its good to post with someone who can put a few words together and has honour regarding our innocent Animals.

May Karma pay back every B that has tortured them!

Hi PALE,
Yes, BRING IT ON (the Karma).

The way I heard it from people in Tasmania was that the "Al Messilah" report only became available AFTER the six month statute of limitations had expired, otherwise it WOULD have been taken up. although it was known that it had been a reportable voyage earlier than that. Reports were made about ill and injured sheep being loaded, but none of the people there could get any action taken.

Dawn Lowe doesn't have anything to do with www.liveexportshame.com - I think she may have started it with other people but she now does some great work with Animals Angels. There are others doing the work on LES now because of Dawn's commitment to Animals Angels.

I still think Animals Australia must have a few cards still to play behind the scenes; they have gone quiet for a reason. The RSPCA may not have all the material from the case but it would be worth asking them. The judgment, and a commentary by Dr Malcolm Caulfield, one of their legal people, are at the live export indefensible site.

I've still got a heap of work to do yet, so good night to you too.

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky
Yes I hear Suzzanne Caz had taken over shamelivexports along with AA etc .

Regardless of that I can say that Dawn did an awful lot of work and has great knowledge. She was also savvy enough to represent herself inderpendantly to the Federal Government ( past) I am not sure whats happening now with this Government.
She won a lot of respect from them too.They always spoke very highly of her and supported her stand to represent her self.

It is really important that people do that. I can say in all honesty and without any offense meant to anybody if you try to speak as a AA follower you wont get a hearing.

Regardless if it is fair or not we must take that onboard and put the Animals first.

Nicky said
I think she may have started it with other people but she now does some great work with Animals Angels. There are others doing the work on LES now because of Dawn's commitment to Animals Angels.

Yes that all Started when I contacte Christa In Germanny.
Which reminds me do you know how I can contact lindy?

Yes I know your busy.
Nite Again

Hi PALE
Who is Lindy?

AA is the organization which is representative on the Animal Welfare Consultative Committee, so it is not without some "clout". But I prefer not to be a direct member of any organization because it can lock you in to various policies that can prove very onerous at times.

Suzanne does contribute to www.liveexportshame.com, her name is at the end of the document about the ships, and I think she may be represented as a "moderator" under the name of Export News Tasmania. That's about as much as I know - sorry!

Cheers
Nicky

Nicky
Goodevening
Yes, BRING IT ON (the Karma).
Nicky
pale

Ok Nicky maybe its time we stepped in. In hindsite we should have just gone ahead and done our own thing years ago instead of waiting for the others. WA is a strange little place within the legal grounds and those who surround it.

Could you please post the link with the transcipt to save me hunting.


We would really appreciate it.

However lets remember regardless of what happens its on the ground we require more plants to make any findings practicle.

The real answer will always lie within the industry .