Well Nicky, there clearly is a bit of pain involved in childbirth, but we haven’t
decided to ban it yet :) Clearly people are prepared to wear a bit of pain occasionally, as being part of life. Ok keep it to a minimum.

There is mass slaughter in nature, every single day. We are talking
philosophical principles here. Industrialisation comes with trying to cram ever
more billions of people onto the planet, but that’s another story. I’m the first
to loudly complain that all women on the planet don’t have access to family
planning etc.

It seems to me however, that you are kind of throwing all farming into one
pile, instead of seeing the large differences that exist. If you want industrialised
farming, go to Europe, the USA or Asia. Australia still has more extensive livestock
farming then most nations.

Being a pig in Australia only sucks for some pigs, not all. Pigs on PFs farm sound
like they have it pretty good. Likewise I’ve seen pigs in shelter type systems
quite content with their world. I have yet to see any farming industry shown
on an animal libber website, where they give an unbiased view, showing all sides
of an industry, good and bad. They show the worst extremes and then suggest
we give up meat, clearly they have an agenda.

Now as you know there is good and bad in marriages. If I was anti marriage and
created a website showing little more then bashed and arguing spouses, would that
be a fair and unbiased presentation of marriage? Certainly not for people who
have great marriages and they do exist. They would rightfully point that out and
that is what I am doing with farming, pointing out that’s its not all black and white
as is being projected by those with agendas and “marketing campaigns”

Animals in a meatworks would be more nervous about new and changing
circumstances then be aware of what is next. That’s why we need people like
Temple Grandin, who can think as cattle think, not as humans think, then
create suitable conditions-for-them

*Take Albert Einstein for example, he was a vegetarian.*

Oops Gertrude, Einstein became a strict vegetarian in early
1954 and died in April 1955. Not exactly an advert for your
cause :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein

Your studies refer to heavy meat eaters, not people who eat
a balanced diet. Processed meats are not even considered
in the studies, compared to fresh unprocessed meats.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, the world is full of really
smart meat eaters!

Perhaps you should take Sam's advice and cook a yummy
lamb roast for a change :)

Nicky Said

PALE, those submissions are five years old, and the Bill never went anywhere. I was concerned about that one at the time because it seemed to be more about promoting this HKM crowd than animal welfare.

Pale replies.
Nicky you can’t be serious

Fact is it was the "first time in the history of Australia "that Muslim Leaders lodged a sub to animal welfare.

Your friends didn’t want to "hear" or "know" yet "claim to be promoting chilled."

Not one word from so called Peak Animal Welfare people?

No, too content with people calling farmers and Muslims barbaric!

AFICS sub if you recall expressed their requests to work *united with *everybody and requested people to make contact.

Not one so called Animal lover acknowledged their sub!

Disgusting, rude shameful.

And Yet- When Lyn went to ME and I asked her if she would like a Media Release from them in support= they didn’t hesitate! See

http://www.livexports.com/afic.html

Of course we have to create a new industry to phase out the live trade.
You say it wasn’t about Animal Welfare. Huh?

It was from the Muslims themselves working in conjunction with among others the RSPCA QLD and pale.

The only Animal Welfare organization that supported it was the NSW Humane Society apart from pale RSPCA QLD.


The sub read = to promote better Animal Welfare by reopening abattoirs “and” they were very interested to explore the possibility to introduce 'Gas to render the animals asleep before having their throats cut.'

So what’s was your concern Nicky?

That it was approached in a sensible business manner.

Also please remember it was Muslims very first sub to Parliament.

Your `friends `shunned their sub along with pale RSPCA QLDS efforts.

The background of the stupid jealously was entrenched well before we came along.

Your friends need, as Yabby said, to get professional advice from people "within the Industry".

Less Uni professors that would know how to run a farm let alone a plant.= And as Hugh Said get off their high horses !~

For the Animals!

Hi all
PALE, this is a very short extract from Animals Australia's "Halal Meat Exports - a Viable Alternative":-

"...Australia’s trade in chilled and frozen ‘halal accredited’ sheep meat to the Middle East is increasing significantly each year. For example, mutton exports reached 52,175 tonnes for the 2006/2007 fiscal year, a 42% increase on the previous year, and lamb exports to the Middle East topped 20,000 tonnes for the first time, a 24% increase on the previous year (source: MLA). Together this level of sheep meat export is equivalent to 3.4 million live sheep (based on a ‘live sheep equivalent’ of 21kg/carcase)...".

The AFIC media release you cited doesn't appear to be supporting anything Lyn White has achieved - it looks a bit more like a face-saving exercise AFTER the exposure of AA's investigations. I've also just re-read some of the submissions to the RRAT enquiry, and none of the animal advocacy groups who submitted even mention PALE, much less "shun" it as you say - they include Animals Australia, Animal Liberation NSW and Against Animal Cruelty Tasmania. They address multiple sections of the proposed bill too. PALE must have made about six submissions - HSI provides a one paragraph comment in support of PALE/HKM "humane slaughter practices", but none of the submissions seem to state what those are. Perhaps you could be more specific.

And from PETA's website www.savethesheep.com (latest media 06/12/2007)

"...Newkirk also explains that the atrocities inherent in live export would be eliminated if the animals were slaughtered in Australia and the meat was then shipped to the Middle East..."

You really can't keep claiming that no-one is supporting the animals being slaughtered in Australia - they just choose, for whatever reason, not to do it your way - as is their right. They are all multi-focussed organizations, addressing many issues whereras PALE seems to stick with specifics - as is its right.

Nicky

pale, you've been visiting peta websites now haven't you. Love the Einstein reference, amusing that a man vegetarian for about 18 months is given fully fledged accreditation to the veggie brigade, but they can't run awat fast enough from someone like Hitler.(yes I know he did like the odd sausage in his primarily veg diet, from age 18)

The IQ test results from a study comparing veggies with omnivores were an even bigger laugh. 23%(from memory) of the vegetarian respondents nominated fish and/or chicken as part of their diets. The big question is did they lower or actually raise the veggie average IQ. I think it was 106.

While meat is a significant fisk factor it's not claimed as a cause, and "meat" includes all that processed junk in frankfurts, spam etc. Frankly they are comparing vegetarians conscious of their health(rightly or wrongly) with not only average meat consumers but those that are on the lowest dietary rung, fastfood, alcohol excess and especially smoking. Even they know they've got problems.
It must be confronting for those vegetarians who find they are not immune to such cancers despite their efforts.

The greatest thing is to enjoy life, and food, notably demonstrated when bacon was said to be high in nitrosamines, a known carcinogen. When the news hit the streets in the UK, bacon consumption actually went up. Maybe all publicity is good after all.

good luck with your next child, I think thats what you meant.

Err hang on Nicky. Last time your girl Ingrid from Peta
was on tv, I seem to recall that she was planning to have
her own meat barbecued when she dies. Now that is of course
up to Ingrid, but you have yet to give good reason why
any of us should take her seriously. Peta makes millions
of $ by pushing emotional buttons and rattling tins, but
I don't give them an ounce of credibility for honesty.

I seem to recall in the distant past, that even you told
me that farming was a business. Yup it is and we have a duty
of care. We can show today that standards on live ships
are pretty good, mortalities are minimal and huge improvements
have been made. We spend money on animal welfare improvements
in the ME, something which none of you can claim. Farmers
as usual are leading the way!

But as has been admitted here, even if we shipped sheep on
the Queen Mary, that still would not be good enough for
fanatics.

If Peta, AA and others object to us earning our livelyhood, they
are free to buy sheep in the market and slaughter them here.

I don't tell the veggie brigade what cars they should or should
not drive, Australian made or imports. Yet we constantly have people
who seem to not have the foggiest about livestock, trying to tell
farmers how they should run their businesses.

Now I realise that lots of money can be made by animal libber groups,

rattling tins about the live trade. Without a cause, no doubt
donations would drop through the floor and some of you might be
out of a job. Have any of you ever thought of getting real
jobs :) ?

.