Cuphandle
Didnt pale ask you not to do that. I have seen you care about animals by your posts.
If you really care then you will not say things like that.

Not all Muslims are people involved in terror for goodness sake.

Some are wonderful eople including my dear neighbours.

Sure nobody liked the world trade but do grow up and realise that they are mad evil people working for amad evil bunch which most certainly does not include all Muslims.
Nothing like it.

If? It turns out to be that they havent got any real evidence to dis prove our research that pre stunning iskinder then it wont happen

If Kevin Rudd was stupid enough to allow this change and it wasnt in the best interests of animals he wouldnt se the next elections to the polls . His party would be bombared with claims of cruelty under the Rudd Government and he surley would not survive it.

On the other hand we should not pre judge.

Lets se what research they put up.

Please dont get this thread closed down if you care about animals
Thanks all I am asking.

I hope to see you in a week everybody as I am going with the other pale people.
Maybe someone would be kind enough to mind the thread ?

Hi all
As I understand it, halal and kosher slaughter provisions came into being when it was about animals in very small numbers; "one-offs", for want of a better description. What Singer, and lots of other experts, are saying basically is that it cannot be done properly or humanely in the huge, industrial scale, assembly line fashion in which animal slaugher happens today. Watch PETA's video of its Agriprocessors investigation for a sickening illustration of this. They filmed and documented cattle still trying to get up and walk, for several minutes, with heads almost severed, blood gushing everywhere and their tracheas having been ripped out. You can't make that up, and nor would Agriprocessors be alone in such practices.
Cheers
Nicky

TarynW - Who made you the thread nazi? Cuphandle is not only free to voice his/her opinion, but is only expressing the opinion shared by many australians.

We have no say in how they treat their animals in Muslim countries, why should they be able to force their beliefs on us?

Nicky you are right. Large scale ritual killing will just not work in this country. Animal welfare aside, can you imagine how it would slow down the kill lines? They will never go for that!

Imagine what it would be like for the animals waiting in line. Without stunning there would be vocalisations, kicking and jerking while the poor animal fights for life. How much stress would those waiting feel?

For anyone who has doubts about the rights and the wrongs of animal slaughter, be it Halal or conventional slaughter,....I would strongly suggest a VERY short visit to a fully operational abattoir, preferably when loads of cattle, sheep and horses are arriving to await their "promised paradise"!

The animals react unbelievably when they smell the blood and the death that permeates the atmosphere around the slaughterhouse! Anybody who maintains that these animals DO NOT know what awaits them needs to seek psychiatric attention!.....needless to say that management, employees and the suppliers of the livestock will all tell you that the animals really don`t know what is going to happen to them!.....that allows these people to sleep soundly in their beds whilst making money from the animals demise!

Again I say NO to Halal slaughter and I will never condone any foreign nation telling me that I have to accept it,.....after all is said and done, the whole issue is NOT just about religous extremes, but also predominantly about that "magic" dollar which makes it just another of the many money-making machines!.....We should be phasing out this dreadful occupation, NOT pandering to foreigners whose long range plan is to take over this country!.....and for anyone who has doubts about that, then I would suggest that they find out exactly what our close neigbours have allegedly been teaching their children in school?....and I will give you a clue "South Irianjaya"!

I will state publicly that this is not about racial vilification, but simply preservation of the relative independence of my country and please believe me when I say that I am very concerned for our future, as all responsible and caring people should be!

Hi all

To return this thread to its origins, is there reliable information that anyone has asked the Australian government to overturn current legislation/codes of practice on ritual (unstunned) slaughter? The only concrete information I have seen is that a Victorian slaughterhouse (let's call these places for what they are) got an exmption from AQIS to do it - you guessed it - for a Middle East export contract.

I understand too that at some point there was a compromise reached that animals could be stunned split seconds after their throats were cut. As for not exporting meat to the Middle East, tens of thousands of tonnes of Australian slaughtered meat (under the prevailing conditions) is exported there every year; far, far more than the trade in live animals is worth.

SIG, your comment was interesting about "domestic" animals - I am assuming you mean cats and dogs, but you should be awaye that sheep, cattle, pigs, goats, chickens etc ARE domestic animals. Why are dogs and cats more worthwhile? All animals feel hunger, thirst, heat and cold, pain and fear just the same. You can do things to "farmed" animals that would land you in jail if you did it to dogs and cats.

To Yabby, I say again - if I cut your leg off while you are conscious you are going to feel it a hell of a lot more than if you are unconscious. And this debate was never intended to be about where you get the biggest bucks for your unfortunate lambs, was it?

And Taryn - you are entitled to your views about Muslims, but 9/11 and Bali (and other like incidents) did it for me.

Nicky

*if I cut your leg off while you are conscious you are going to feel it a hell of a lot more than if you are unconscious. And this debate was never intended to be about where you get the biggest bucks for your unfortunate lambs, was it?*

Nicky, AFAIK the Victorian situation came up as they had an order from Israel for
kosher lamb. No kosher, no order, as I understand it.

Nicky, cutting a leg off is a little different to surprise and then losing awareness
due to the drop in blood pressure, when your throat is slit. Its time this was
answered scientifically, as the one study that was done in Germany, shows
results a little different then expected. It’s a neuoscience question and that
is who needs to answer it.

http://www.mustaqim.co.uk/halalstudy.htm

To me there is a big difference between sheep and cattle, for a number
of reasons.

Sure money comes into the whole debate. It’s a living for some. A lot of those
livestock spend most of their lives relatively free to do as they please, until
their time is up. Sadly we can’t keep them all, or they would starve to death
as in nature.

If we look at the moral argument, what about those little slaves that you
keep and call pets? They are your slaves after all, as Pericles wisely points
out. You call the shots, all day every day. You lock them in apartments
all day, put them on chains, wonder why they become neurotic and chew
the furniture. Some of you dress them up, put jewellery on them, etc. etc.
When do they get to lead natural lives? They are purely there for your
benefit and you can dump them when you are tired of them.

In many ways, a lot of farm livestock are far better off then all your
pets. Whether the end takes 1 second or 5 seconds, personally I
don’t think is a major issue. We all have to face it one day.