As this threads progresses we will share some of our work Australia with Muslim Leaders going back almost six years.

For Now You may refer to this thread

http://www.halakindmeats.com/


I would like to let this thread run a little longer to give Muslim reps and people supporting kosher slaughter every opportunity to respond by posing their comments before posting further conflicting docs.

Perhaps I have missed something.

I do not recall any media releases or voices of great concern being raised from either the Jewish Community or Muslim Community in Australian about Australian laws being cruel to animals.

I know there has been a long history of differences and even complaints from Muslims for ‘religious purposes’

So here’s thing thing .= If being kind to animals is part of the Koran, and if Muslims now say its cruel ,to pre stun, then how could they have produced millions of dollars of Halal products without any complaints about this cruelty that is Harman[ Unlawful] To Muslims?

I know in the past they have been upset that they had to pre stun while some Kosher was allowed to go without stunning and quite rightly so.


Celiva expressed we only have one lot of laws in Australia regardless of religion.

What suddenly now has happened to bring this on?


Is there any other reason what so ever other than Animal Welfare alone that would encourage the Muslim leaders Of Australia to change the standards now?

What also could make the Government consider ignoring all past RSPCA codes of Animal Welfare to turn this country into an Islamic Ritual Slaughter country?

Especially when plenty of other Muslims have insisted that pre stunning is widely accepted amongst most Muslims.

Is The Government or indeed the Muslim Leaders requesting this change to our laws aware of any other reason what so ever that this request has been lodged to the Australian Government?

Can them Government or Muslims Leaders assure the public that this will not result in a monitory gain for anybody.

Can they assure us it is `only` and `solely` about the `Welfare of `Animals?

C J Morgan,

I am with you. Sorry if it didn’t show. As I have said previously, animal welfare in Australia is no where near perfect i.e. using dogs etc. It seems the problem is brought about by selectively anthropomorphising our interaction with animals other than human. We classify them as pets, stock or ferrel and this gives licence to treat them differently. But, sadly, justifying brutal actions one would not normally be involved with is a human trait. Slavery, how women have been treated, (and still are) gay bashing etc, were and are all justified on some faulty premise or other.

Halal killing of live animals in a predominately Islamic country is only a part of problem. It is how the animals are treated before death, where there are no proper animal welfare guidelines, rules or laws. This problem substantially increased the negatives around live transport, besides the transporting in itself. But this is getting away from Halal killing in Australia.

This thread goes beyond my responsibility in representing the AFA. It was only the religious component, which dragged me into the discussion. I’ll leave you good people to sort it out.

David

StG,

Most well rounded people can ‘put their energies’ into multiple causes. The world would be a lot sadder place if they didn’t.

It is a pity their is not so much concern about the slaughter of unborn children as their is whales and sheep. If we are just animals it makes all those eating meat cannibals. In my opinion animals should be killed with the least amount of pain and distress.

"Yet, recently in some Muslim abattoirs, stunning prior slaughter has become acceptable, though according to Muslim faith the animal is not to be killed before exsanguination (Grandin and Regenstein, 1994)."

This is required so the heart keep pumping so all blood is expelled from the body.

I agree that there should be no live exports. Whilst the Koran states non-cruelty to animals, this appears to have a very liberal interpretation in Muslim countries. European countries, whilst having codes about pets, are also far from good models in slaughtering of animals.

Many years ago I lived quite some time in a very moderate Islamic, but mult-racial, multi-religious country. It was successful. This was because there was a dominant culture, Islam, which everyone respected. It was not onerus. People freely practiced their religion.
The only requirement was that no attempt was permitted to convert Muslims to a different religion, to do so meant immediate explusion from the country; also, out of respect for Muslims, non-Muslim women didn't wear skimpy clothing around them. This may appear a deviation from the issue of slaughter of animals and live exports, but it is not.

The dominant culture in this country expresses concern about animal cruelty. This is an entirely civilized philosophy, not capricious, nor intended to upset people. The problem of
animal cruelty in this country has not been entirely addressed, however, what we do have in place must be respected by all. I do not even see the need for discussion with other groups.

Hello Everyone.

Working my way down list to comment on your posts.
Might take some time and thanks to all.


Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc,David- Good to see you in this very important thread for the Animals

Celivia, = Very interesting comment.

DEMOS, - In hindsight yes you are correct. I will request moderator add the Kosher to the title. Later we could discuss full back ground of Kosher.

It’s interesting to note that as Muslims pointed out there seemed to be `one rule for Kosher [Jews] and `another for Halal= Muslims most unfair.

“Especially for Animals.” Maybe originally it was a Bush policy, who knows. {Joke]

Jolanda, you opened a thread about this a long time ago.
The animals would appreciate your assistance firstly and we can discuss possible reasons or motives for changing laws later If Any. Ok

I_Spy, = Thank you. All cruelty to animals makes me boil also.
I will go back to your other comment asp

Cuphandle, said

I remember not too long ago a Christian Archbishop state that "animals had no spirituality!"......what a load of rubbish!..

Pale replies.

Umm Did he now. Well that might explain why `some` Church Leaders turn their backs on Animal Cruelty.
BTW Do you have to have umm, `Spirituality` to feel pain and stress?
[ ps if there is a God please don’t send me Bozie too this thread.

Perhaps we could ask David from the Atheist Foundation of Australia Inc, to give us some guidance.

Many Christian Churches now do blessings for Animals. I guess he’s not one of them Ah.

Good Heavens Cuphandle is he actually saying Muslims are the only ones concerned about Animal Welfare?

How Extraordinary.

Perhaps you may care to email him and other Church Leaders so they may comment if they wish about the kindest slaughter methods.

It may even end up being be in his churches best interests.

FYI. RSPCA Dr Hugh Wirth addressed the Press National Press Club and stated that until Church leaders educate their flock and speak out for Gods own creatures nothing will change. See=

http://www.livexports.com/hughwirth.html

TOBECONTINUED

David, I think its `religion.`

Refering to the above post.

This may explain ` why Church Leaders of Australia were the `only ones` who sat back with mouths wide shut after five separate segments of utter barbaric cruelty was aired on 60 Minutes regarding live animal exports.



Silly me I always thought it was the money that they got from Government by way of grants but there you go the good old Archbishop has sorted all of that.



Not So with the X President of AFIC =Muslim Leaders...

In stark contrast he put out a Media Release asking the Government and the media `to be responsible` when reporting the real reasons for live animal exports and addressing pre stunning and requirements of slaughter.



He was concerned for the animals and insisted that Muslims readily except pre stunned Halal meat.

He further said there was no requirement for Animals to be sent alive for ritual purposes.

So one would assume there is also no reason to send them live or to change the pre stunning practice in our own country.



Muslim Leaders cared enough to try to do something. Unlike our Church Leaders.

He stated that they could be slaughtered here in one of the many Halal plants and sent chilled.

So concerned have many Muslims leaders been in the past they have asked what more they could do to open abattoirs to stop animals being sent alive after to closure of scores of abattoirs in Australia over the last twenty years.



Not so with our so called Christians. Shame on the Church Leaders of Australia and the Australian Government= Such Shame to bring to the innocent children of this country by our world wide reputation as barbaric cruelty.

So there you have it. One kind Muslim Leader speaking out in horror at cruelty to animals advising that most Muslims readily pre stun in Halal Abattoirs here.



Now a new Muslim Leader asking the Government to change the law to abide by the more extreme ritual slaughter standards=But why?

Are they right. Is it kinder? not to pre stun?