Hi all
There is nothing racist about the facts.The Bali bombing and the treatment of women and dissidents (and animals) in the Middle East are a matter of (lots of) public record. I draw your attention to PALE's comments about Asians, and won't go there, beyond that.

I look forward to seeing the proof of the request from the Muslim community to slaughter unstunned animals, and the various governments' responses to it/them. Meat workers with whom I have discussed it describe it as "brutal" and "shocking". If they don't want to do it, and it is as clear that present methods are accepted in the Muslim and Jewish communities, why revert to barbarism? They import tens of thousands of tonnes of Australian slaughtered meat into the Middle East and South East Asia (incidentally, why is Australia exporting slaughter animals to Catholic countries where they are not stunned either?)

There has to be, I am informed, a special licence granted by AQIS for this purpose, and the only one to have come to light is Midfield Meats in Warnambool in Victoria. If there is demonstrable proof of it occurring elsewhere, let's see it. Several state bodies gave me the same response - it doesn't happen (except in Yabby-country).

Yabby, you may not have lost a dog through an accident on the back of a ute, but several people around here have, and just left them in the gutter. Do you not have to restrain them where you are? I believe that this is far safer, the dog may be surefooted enough to adjust to sudden braking or a collision (even if by jumping iff as you say), but in several states it is the law that they must be restrained. That was my point about a harness rather than a collar and leash. My "slaves" are both keplie/collie type crosses (they were what needed rescuing at the time), but they are quite happy jumping through the (open) doors of the car.

Can someone please explain some of these abbreviations/accronyms appearing here? IMOP and RMOP are the most recent.

Cheers
Nicky

.

*but several people
around here have, and just left them in the gutter.*

Nicky, where they left them frankly does not matter, why
they died is another question. Sounds to me like the three
dogs that you mention, died due to being chained up on
the back of utes, judging by your previous post.

There is only one reason that I know for dogs falling off
utes, that is if owners leave the their tailgates off. Thats
asking for trouble.

I think that a pencil pusher like you, frankly doesent have
the foggiest about the skills of a good farm dog. Do you
know how we tear around across rough country on farms?
Those dogs jump on and off, chasing rabbits, chasing flyblown
sheep etc, its their greatest thrill. Kelpies/Collies are
bundles of energy, wanting to burn it off. The biggest punishment
that I can give my dogs is to stop them running, when they
just want to run for miles. But then my dogs eat meat,
perhaps yours on a carrot diet, would possibly not be
as healthy as mine :)

It sounds to me that your dogs simply have to accept the
life that you dictate for them. Mine at least get to
live natural doggie lives and do natural doggie things,
they have a choice in what they want or don't want to do.

Frankly if you approached one of my dogs, who have never
even worn a collar in their lives, with one of your
harnesses, they would fall over laughing and find you
an insult to their dignity :)

Hi Yabby
I do take on board what you say, especially about the kelpie/collie types. Although mine have plenty of room to run and get out a lot had it been a matter of choice for them, they may have chosen a different life. But in both cases, they had nowhere else to go (one was about to be drowned, the other abandoned). I might do some "pencil pushing", but my dogs are a major priority in my life.

They also have a balanced "doggy" diet, including bones because I've never thought that it is the right thing to do to turn a dog into a vegetarian - although they do have some vegetables as well. Both are extremely healthy.

The dogs found on the side of the road here had broken necks (you don't need to be a vet to know that when you see it). Where I live dogs have to be restrained on the back of a ute by law; the objection I have to it is the means when it can expose them to such risk. I think that if they have to be restrained at all, it should be safely, and that to me doesn't mean a chain/collar/leash - I think a harness is safer. This is what I meant by "dangerous and indefensible" - the life your dogs have is different and I recognize that. I have seen some dogs that really looked thoroughly miserable, on very short chains on the back of utes, in howling gales and rain. One was an obviously very, very old border collie, huddled in a ball in the freezing rain.

Conversely, one day I saw a guy, who had a dog on his ute stopped at traffic lights. A thunderstorm struck, and he hopped out, grabbed his dog off the back and took it in the cabin with him (a staffie). I thought that was great.

Cheers
Nicky

In My Honest Opinion IMOP

What have dogs to you with Halal?

Never get Muslim faith people to comment at this rate.

Umm how come you haven’t heard about the request from Muslim leaders not to pre stun?

Even Yabbs posted it several weeks ago.

I actually blew a gasket and broke the MOU ties which I wouldn’t do lightly I can assure you.

We will meet and talk.I will listen. Our friends suggested last week however I had to go North. It will be soon.

You just can’t mass slaughter without sawing at the necks. You can do one or two but not thousands and millions.



Anyway re AQIS requirements= Yes your correct. That is for exporting meat. Yes you require a Halal accreditation through AQIS.
Its all terribly, cough cough umm organized. I will be going into this in great detail a little later.

Now that is not the case for domestic plants or abattoirs.

Under Labor State Governments the practice of ritual Islamic and Kosher slaughters has been allowed to take place.

In Sydney Melbourne Cairns and most of our major cities you will find 99% of all fast food outlets are already Halal.
I don’t think you will find one Kebab shop that’s Halal for starters and KFC is Halal.

Once you fully understand what the word Halal means and how it affects all products you might understand why it is so important.

BTW [By The Way] you can say it=

Pale said there were too many Asians in Cairns.

Yup the place is crawling with them.
It’s a complete take over.

If you can talk about dogs on a Halal thread then I can talk about being swamped by Asians in Cairns.

BTW speaking of you animal people - how come Bridget Bardott was absolutely delighted with the pales HKM MOU with Islamic Leaders to pre stun and slaughter here in Australia while that your lot hate the plan.
Doesn’t that tell us all something about peta and their agenda?

I mean you won’t find a bigger Animal Lover than Bridget.

Hi all
So Yabby and I got a bit sidetracked. It's not the end of the world. Thanks for clearing up one of the accronyms.

Is there any real evidence that whatever meat you say is halal in Australia has not been pre-stunned (have you read Trish Brown's Abattoir Report at www.liveexportshame.com?). I find it very hard to believe that KFC would be bothering to make any such concessions, given that it makes a killing (apologies for the pun) without it. As I said, the people with whom I have discussed the matter assure me that it's not happening, and the meatworkers themselves say they don't want to do it.

If it is going on, I think the slaughterhouses doing it should be named so that some action can be taken against them. They are breaking the law, in all states and territories (unless they had an AQIS exemption for export and that is understood to have been a "one off"). If it's happening in Queensland should your RSPCA friends not have been onto it?

Since we're up to page 11, do you not think that if your Muslim friends (speaking of being over-run) were going to make an appearance here and state their case they would have done so by now? I'm not really sure where Brigitte Bardot and PETA fit here, although PETA has been known to call in Temple Grandin for expert comment on slaughterhouse processes in the US. I think you tend to overlook the fact that both PETA and Animals Australia actively promote a frozen/carcass trade from Australia to the Middle East.

Nite all,
Nicky

Nicky fyi
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/newsletters/n354.htm

I have spoken with Rabi Gutnick and we have agreed to meet.

As we are to meet with AFIC leaders again it is my dearest wish to all sit at the table.

I am also attempting to contact Temble Gradin . [One can only ask.]

The Government review will not commence until March due to the work load over the horse influensia. Mind you the standards will be set by the Animal Welfare Comittee.

Your welcome as stated before to attend meeting. If you don’t want anyone to know who you are wear a burka.

We are not known for following grand formalities here.

Peter Thornber and Allan Sheridon will head it but the standards will be set by the Daff Animal Welfare dept.
You can contact Sally Standon fyi= 0262725411

Its only then reasonable Muslims question this double standards- Dont you think? fyi>
http://www.adelaideinstitute.org/Australia/eruv.htm

Nicky said
?). I find it very hard to believe that KFC would be bothering to make any such concessions, given that it makes a killing (apologies for the pun)
Pale replies.
Nicky KFC is a huge company. They service many places and the facts are that Halal is considered normal. Its a trillion dollar industry and growing. You’re certainly asking the right questions. However we are the exception in their eyes not the other way around.

Nicky said

As I said, the people with whom I have discussed the matter assure me that it's not happening, and the meat workers themselves say they don't want to do it.

Pale replies. Nicky AMIEU are not meat workers.

There is a long history of problems associated with this. Including problems with staff fighting. In Victoria for example you had a guy knife another meat worker.


Also it’s not a matter of not wanting to do it. It’s that they can’t do it if they are not a certified Muslim meat Slaughter men.

Also you’re right. Most Aussie blokes don’t approve of it.

TBC