*He stated that the overseas markets for Halal meat cannot be met because the live trade gets first preference from the livestock sales yards.*

Hehe, meat processors would be rubbing their hands with glee,
over a girl like Trish :)

If these people have staff and markets as claimed, why arn't they
bidding on the livestock? Why do sheep that make 60$ on a boat,
make 20$ in the saleyards if they don't go on a boat?

Why are beef farmers in WA screaming for another meatworks, as their
returns are ridiculously low, compared to ES prices? Why are sheep
not going to the live trade, worth so much less then Eastern States
sheep?

I'll give you an example of the WA market. 2 years ago I sold some
lambs, that were very large and in very good condition. "Ah" said
the processor, "they were too fat, we'll pay you 35$", end of story.
So I rang Elders in Ballarat on the same day, to get a quote for
the same weight, same fat score, same everything. "110$ is the
price right now for those lambs in the East" said the Elders man.

If things were as claimed in Trish's story, why don't local processors
pay at least Eastern States prices? Quite simple, processors have
made it plain that they are not a charity, they will buy livestock
as cheap as possible. Farmers, to escape the tentacles of a savage
processing industry, can either truck them East or put them on
a boat.

Every time there is a hickup in the live trade, huge numbers of
livestock are trucked thousands of km east. Now thats a long trip.
I'd rather send my lambs on a boat, where they have feed, water,
can move about and lie down and eat all the food they want. There
is a vet on board, etc. Mind you, I do specify which company, I want
the best boats for my lambs, so they go on Siba ships

Taryn

"I can see your heart is in the right place. May I point out that you said you know nothing of Halal Slaughter however you agreed it was inhumane."

I assumed Kosher and Halal slaughter to be very similar. Can you explain the differences?

2500 years ago, when the rules of kosher were made, it was said that the animal must have split hooves and chew it's cud. 2500 years later we have biological knowledge. The only species of animals that have split hooves and chew their cud, also have a certain artery that goes directly to their brain, as opposed to their heart - unlike all other species (including humans). It is said that cutting this vein results in a painless death, because the animal becomes instantly unconscious. On the other hand, slaughtering other species by this method causes much suffering.

I cannot evaluate this information. However, whilst recognising people's beliefs, I do not subscribe to compromising any gains we have achieved in animal welfare - which have, indeed, been a long time coming - for any religion.

Yabby

There, there, poor little lamb. Don’t upset yourself.

I think the aim of that post was a look into a Halal Abattoirs to see how the animals are treated before and during slaughter.

I can understand of course your close bond with Elders Yabbs, because they only talk in terms of figures too.

Perhaps you are all from the same paddock. Anyway we mustn’t go off post it’s unfair to the others.

Just before I go and speaking of your friends Elders, AWB etc, would you mind forwarding these onto them from the Australian public and the rest of the world please.

note- `No` Veggie extreme groups involved. No contact with these people. How’s is that Yabbs independent

enough for you?

http://www.halakindmeats.com/elders.html

http://consciousevolution.com/onshu/view_signatures.php

Media Release

24 February 2006

Australian Muslims Are Against
Animal Cruelty

The President of the Australian Federation of Islamic Councils, Dr. irresponsibly in misinforming the Australian public about the real reasons for live exports.

Dr. Ameer Ali said that Muslims are primarily concerned to ensure that the animal is slaughtered in accordance with the Islamic Shariah, and that can be done in Australia under the Australian Government supervised Muslim Slaughter Program (AGSMS) and we want the Australian public to koww that we do not agree to animal cruelty.

He further said that Muslims in the Middle Eastern countries readily accept frozen and chilled lamb and mutton from Australia, once it is Halal certified under the program.

Last year Australian lamb meat exports to the Middle East was up 36% to a record 14,052 Tonnes, and Australian mutton meat export to the Middle East was up 24% in the same period to 36,051 Tonnes (ref. Farmonline News 1 Feb 2006). This represents the equivalent of more than 2 million sheep which were slaughtered in Australia for the Middle Eastern Muslim customers.

Dr. Ali said that the Australian Muslims does not support the cruel treatment of animals prior to slaughter, that has been documented in Egypt as the Qur`an dictates that animals should be treated with kindness.

http://www.livexports.com/afic.html

Hello I Spy- You said

My point exactly. So would quoting the words of Peter Singer help or hinder?

Pale replies

Interesting question. Possibly hinder. Personally I only exchanged emails with the man and found him to be truly arrogant. Still I respect his name and dedication- I am told. ` A tad odd I thought.

I Spy said

is there scientic evidence that supports pre stunning is unwarranted?

Pale replies.

Apparently there are claims new research has been done in Germany.

CJ Morgan said>

Ah yes, but if we ban halal slaughtering in Australia, what does that do to the arguments of those who wish to ban live exports of sheep etc to Muslim countries? Are you suggesting that we don't export meat to Muslim countries, alive or dead?

Pale Relies

This is the million dollar question. I am not sure of the answer as you have rightfully pointed out it has all sorts of possible twists and turns.

I don’t know anymore than you do and we are asking the public to help keep and eye out for the animals because this could be really good for the animals or horribly bad and a huge step backwards in animal welfare.

This is completely different to all our earlier discussions and projects working with AFIC.

We were stunned. I was personally disappointed to be honest.

In the past we had talks with other Muslim delegates and discussions about building the world’s first successful Gas plant for larger beasts as well as sheep goat etc
See.
http://www.halakindmeats.com/submissions.html

CJ Morgan said

Are you suggesting that we don't export meat to Muslim countries, alive or dead?

Pale replies

No certainly not. We are a main stream bunch of ordinary folk. We as everybody else want to see Animals killed as close to their place of origan to comply with RSPCA recommendations.

I suppose also I can’t help but wonder if the industry and Government have put their heads together to say Australia accepts Ritual slaughter. I assume they would then argue there is no case to argue against live exports.

Danielle

I have read someof your posts on other topics and find member of great interest to me personally.

While you are waiting for Taryn I thought you might like these few links.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/03/1995804.htm

http://www.albalagh.net/halal/kosher_meat.shtml

Thank You Yabby.

It is the amazing work of Dr Temple Grandin`s Her book was a best seller in USA. The lifes story of this truely amazing women is worth a read even if you ae not particially interested in Animal Welfare.

http://www.grandin.com/index.html

Recommended Ritual Slaughter Practices

This is the Work of temple Grandins=
Ritual slaughter is slaughter done according to the religious requirements of either the Jewish or Muslim religious faith. The animal is slaughtered, without being stunned, with a razor sharp knife. When the cut is done correctly, the animal appears not to feel it. From an animal welfare standpoint, the major concern during ritual slaughter are the stressful and cruel methods of restraint (holding) that are used in some plants. Progressive slaughter plants use devices to hold the animal in a comfortable, upright position. Unfortunately, there are some plants which use cruel methods of restraint such as hanging live animals upside down. At Grandin Livestock Systems, we believe that the practice of hanging live cattle and calves upside down should be eliminated.

Time required for cattle to lose sensibility
Principles of Low Stress Restraint
Maintaining acceptable animal welfare during Kosher or Halal slaughter
Ritual Slaughter Tips
ASPCA Pen for Ritual Slaughter
Schematic Details of the ASPCA Pen for Ritual Slaughter
Conveyor Restrainer Systems
Small Restraint Systems
A Discussion For Meat Scientists
Conservative Jewish Law and Standards on shackling and hoisting
Translated article on Kosher slaughter from a religious journal in Israel
Kosher Meat from Uruguay
Answers to questions about cattle insensibility and pain during kosher slaughter and analysis of the Agriprocessors video
Evaluation of Methods of Restraint for holding (fixation) of Cattle,Calves, and Sheep for kosher and halal slaughter

I am away for a week Danielle see all on return
You behave yourself while I am gone Yabbs and no porkies please.

Why do we have to have all this hoo-haa and garbage simply because a bunch of immigrants want to change the system to suit their own parochial and barbaric practices.

If they don`t like to live in a predominantly Christian country with it`s own unique set of values and are NOT prepared to adapt or integrate sensibly, but instead would like to see all of us our knees bowing to Mecca and compelling our women to wear burkhas, then I would invite them to return to their country of origin where they can practice their Islamic ways to their hearts content and speedily attain their "Promised Paradise"!

I have heard a few "well oiled" and supposedly influential members of the Islamic faith stating that their Quoran does not allow them to kill other human beings!......NOT BAD for a religous group of fanatics who run around blowing themselves up and/or killing large numbers of other human beings in the name of Jihad!

I am sorry for any indication of racial intolerance, but somebody HAS to say it, before we are all living in "Rocket Launcher" towers!