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The Forum > General Discussion > Always The Victim.

Always The Victim.

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I hope the world never lets Israel forget what its been doing.
Armchair Critic,
I don’t believe it will be possible for the World to forget the insanity that is the Middle East & what many ME people are doing there & throughout the World.
Ask the Germans whose regret & guilt has brought on their own downfall.
Posted by Indyvidual, Sunday, 31 December 2023 10:06:18 AM
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Baldrick you moron why do you always support terrorists and dictators?

It has been acknowledged by the UN and pretty much every OECD country that Hamas is using civilians to shield its soldiers weapons etc. The tunnels and command centres under schools, hospitals etc put paid to any doubt on the issue.

According to the rules of war, enemy combatants, command centres etc are always legitimate targets irrespective of whether there are civilians present. This is why using civilians as human shields is a war crime. So when pinheads such as yourself declare Israeli actions war crimes, it is based on pure ignorance and stupidity and ignores the war crimes committed by Hamas.
Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 31 December 2023 11:38:22 AM
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Back to the topic of victimhood.

There's an interesting article in Scientific American
by Scott Barry Kaufman who writes that - "Those who have a
perpetual victimhood mindset tend to believe that their life
is entirely under the control of forces outside their self."

Which is not a healthy state to be in because it can result in
constantly seeking recognition of one's victimhood.

Kaufman explains that it can result in moral elitism, the lack
of empathy for the pain and suffering of others, and in
frequently rumminating about past victimisation.

There's more at the following link:

http://scientificamerican.com/article/unraveling-the-mindset-of-victimhood/

Kaufman says that:

"We're all human with the same underlying needs to belong,
to be seen, to be heard, and to matter."

"Seeing reality as clearly as possible is an essential step
along a path to shed the perpetual victimhood mindset for
something more productive, constructive, hopeful and
amenable to building positive relationships with others."
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 31 December 2023 12:13:21 PM
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Dear Critic,

Could we not agree that Israel HAS to do roughly what it does now in order to survive?
Could we not agree that Israel HAD to do roughly what it did in 1948 in order to survive?

Certainly, the attitude of SOME Israelis and their present government is shocking.
Certainly, SOME of Israel's outlying actions could and should be corrected.
Certainly, you are doing Israel a favour by pointing out such actions and attitudes.

But at the end of the day, SUPPOSE you found yourself in Israel's situation and SUPPOSE you wanted to survive - would you not be doing essentially the same with only some minor modifications on the humane side?

You are lucky indeed to be in Australia where you do not need to make such difficult moral choices - to kill or to be killed.

No, as I just told Foxy, I do not believe in luck, which is only a superficial observation - I do believe that everyone gets precisely what they deserve, and that also includes the poor Gazans who have nowhere to flee, as well as the Israelis who need to face such unenviable moral dilemmas, to kill or to be killed, to bomb or to be raped.

You show compassion for the Gazans alright, but why not for the Israelis who are just as cornered?

Suppose your "luck", born of previous good deeds, eventually runs out so that next time over, after a long and comfortable life that I wish you in Australia for the coming year and thereafter, you are born into similar hard dilemmas as Israelis face: would you then rather receive my compassion or my scorn?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 31 December 2023 1:57:57 PM
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Yuyutsu,

We have to keep in mind the importance of facts.
We need to take a look at what much of the
mainstream media has delighted in obliterating -
the context of Israel's colonial violence, the
politics that sustain it and how Israel's right
to defend itself is an attack against the
Palestinians legitimate anti-colonial resistance.

What we get told - while Gaza is bombarded and
Palestinians are murdered, injured and forcibly
displaced - is Israel's security narrative- which
dominates the international diplomatic discourse.

Where the rhetoric fails to laud Israel's
rights to defend itself Israeli diplomats quickly step in.
As happened with the Vatican according to a Reuters
report - "I would like to hear stronger words about
Israel's right to defend itself," Israeli Ambassador to
the Vatican stated.

Israel would have everyone believe that it's the Palestinians
that are the problem. Especially Hamas.

The historical context of Israel's colonial violence
and its politics tells a different story.
Posted by Foxy, Sunday, 31 December 2023 2:33:46 PM
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Dear Foxy,

We could sit down over a nice cup of tea to discuss Israel's colonial violence, which I too strongly oppose. Not just I, but dare I say also the majority of Israeli civilians who were murdered, wounded, raped and kidnapped on October 7th.

Hamas wouldn't care what I think or believe in, they would have killed me just as well and just as cruelly had I been there that day, maybe partying that night for peace on that hill.

But then there are those, including in this forum, who believe that Israel itself is a form of colonial violence, and that its people should have no spot on earth to place their feet on, that just being born an Israeli itself is a crime against humanity. They are entitled to their view, I just wish that they would be more explicit about it.

I do not give a damn about "Israel's right to defend itself", because Israel will continue to defend itself whether or not it has such "right".

«What we get told - while Gaza is bombarded and
Palestinians are murdered, injured and forcibly
displaced»

That is mostly true, except for the word "murdered": murder requires a deliberate intent to kill and I do not believe that to be the case.

Obviously, should any such bad apples who deliberately murder Gazans be caught, then they should be treated exactly like any other murderer.

«Israel would have everyone believe that it's the Palestinians
that are the problem. Especially Hamas.»

Ultimately no problems exist - only situations.
Considering any situation problematic, is only subjective, in the mind of the perceiver.

Clearly many Israelis perceive the "Palestinians" to be THEIR problem, while many others take on Israel and its existence to be THEIR problem. No contradiction there, it's totally subjective.

I admit that I too consider these "Palestinians" as a problem due to my totally subjective desire to see my family in Israel live and be happy in their homes.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Sunday, 31 December 2023 4:15:03 PM
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