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The Forum > General Discussion > For Hamas the business model is Gazans' misery.

For Hamas the business model is Gazans' misery.

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Yes, there are some elements of Apartheid in Israel's behaviour, but there is one fundamental difference: the Bantu in South Africa never waged war against the white population, not since 1879.

Less than an hour ago, one Israeli was murdered and eight wounded, five of them severely, in a shooting incident while waiting in a bus-stop in WESTERN Jerusalem by two Arab terrorists.

Can Israel afford to treat a population that is so prone to terrorism equally? Would Australia treat them the same?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 30 November 2023 4:39:57 PM
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One more person just died of their wounds.
The first was Liran Tamari, a 24 year old woman.
The number of wounded was updated to 12.

The perpetrators were from Eastern Jerusalem:
Arab residents of Eastern Jerusalem are Israeli Permanent Residents - they receive social benefits, they can travel and work freely within Israel and can apply for Israeli citizenship if they want and demonstrate (like in Australia) that they do not pose a security risk.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 30 November 2023 5:05:02 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,

Murders of innocent people, including women and children are taking place on both sides, and have been for a very long time. This is what has to stop, this cycle of continuing violence, and peace installed. A fair two state solution is the only viable possibility to achieve any kind of lasting peace.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 30 November 2023 9:06:40 PM
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"A fair two state solution is the only viable possibility to achieve any kind of lasting peace."

On at least five occasions over the past century, a formal two state solution has been proposed by entities like the British mandate, the UN, the US and Israel itself. On each occasion the Jews have accepted the proposed settlement and the Arabs have rejected it, usually thereafter launching a war or other violence against the Jews.

The notion that there can be a two state solution while ever the Arabs think they can win it all, is the victory of naivety over ignorance.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 1 December 2023 7:31:43 AM
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Dear Paul,

«A fair two state solution is the only viable possibility to achieve any kind of lasting peace.»

Why only two?
As many as the people want, I say - there is no need for anyone to share their fate and their laws with others they never wished to be affiliated with!

But then, what do you do when the people involved, many of them, do not want a state of their own, with all the responsibilities that come along it? What do you do when so many, on both sides, prefer to continue fighting?

---

Dear Mhaze,

«On each occasion the Jews have accepted the proposed settlement and the Arabs have rejected it, usually thereafter launching a war or other violence against the Jews.»

We need to stop this stereotyping of people, particularly by their assumed religion.
The citizens of Israel are called Israelis, not "Jews", and before Israel was formally established they were called Zionists. The fact that most of them also happen to be Jews does not warrant meddling into their lives with one's pro-Jewish or anti-Jewish sentiments.

As for "the Arabs", I don't like that expression either, but at least I don't say "the Muslims". I try to refer to the relevant people as "the local Arabs", but I wish they had another name to call themselves by, a decent name, because "Palestinians" is an unacceptable derogatory word, invented for the sole purpose of insult and hurt and it naturally doesn't invite any goodwill.

That said, I agree that the Zionists and Israelis offered the local Arabs to have their own state, several times, and that they sadly keep refusing it. The present Israeli government also refuses to allow them to have their own state, but not to worry, it will soon be replaced. The question is, whether the local Arabs will agree to it this time?
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 1 December 2023 8:10:21 AM
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Yuyutsu,

I use and used the term Jew because some of this happened at a time when there wasn't an Israel and therefore there weren't any Israelis. I abhor the term Zionist because it has all sorts of connotations which simply don't apply to the vast majority of current day Israelis or pre-1947 Jews.

Equally I use the term Arab because the word Palestine s simply created to colour and distort the truth. Use the term 'local Arab' if you like but there is precisely no difference between what you call 'locals' and those living in Jordan or even further afield.
Posted by mhaze, Friday, 1 December 2023 8:44:44 AM
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