The Forum > General Discussion > For Hamas the business model is Gazans' misery.
For Hamas the business model is Gazans' misery.
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Posted by Foxy, Friday, 1 December 2023 9:00:21 AM
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Dear Mhaze,
Yes, the word 'Zionist' refers to the past and hardly applies to most Israelis today. But while 'Zionism' refers to the past and is hardly relevant today, it refers to a glorious past, not to a shameful past, a past of reviving the Hebrew culture and language, a past of building a land, of creativity, of moving away from "air-jobs" into cultivating the earth, a past of greening the desert, a past of inclusion regardless of ethnic or religious differences, of treating women equally, of wishing everyone to be freed from the narrow-minded oppression of Rabbis and Muftis alike - very unlike the present oppression of the local Arabs in the West Bank by American-Jewish settlers or the other crimes that Foxy just mentioned, very unlike the hatred expressed by the Nazis in Netanyahu's government along with that weak and corrupt PM who speaks Zionism but then bows down to their cruel whims. We should rather be proud of Zionism, though not of its later corruption. Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 1 December 2023 9:49:51 AM
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Yuyutsu
Re 'Zionist'. Completely agree that it ought not to have negative connotations. But in company such as we have here, use of the word is triggering and is therefore best left on the shelf to avoid having to go down fruitless paths. ____________________________________________________________________ For those interested, this is the article Foxy plagiarised most of her last post from.... http://ia804506.us.archive.org/22/items/ten-myths-about-israel-by-ilan-pappe-2017/Ten%20Myths%20About%20Israel%20by%20Ilan%20Pappe%20%282017%29.pdf written by Ilan Pappe who we've already seen described in some circles as "At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two." Posted by mhaze, Friday, 1 December 2023 11:22:06 AM
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Dear Mhaze,
By you stopping to use the word 'Zionism' positively, nobody else here would stop using it negatively, nor the Hamas, nor Netanyahu and his government which bring Zionism such a terrible reputation. People should be aware that Zionism is now something of the past AND that even when it was relevant, it was none of the evil presently attributed to it by terrorists. Netanyahu and his bigoted ilk are destroying Israel - they are anti-Zionists! Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 1 December 2023 11:38:13 AM
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mhaze,
if you disagree with the United Nations investigators, the African National Congress (ANC) the many human rights groups and the many prominent Israeli political and cultural figures. - None of us can force you to be right. Although, actually reading the "Ten Myths About Israel," by renowned Israeli historian - Prof. Ilan Pappe, and his book - "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine," might help. As would the Bibliographies, notes and references that he provides. You don't seem to care that as long as distortions and inherited assumptions are not questioned they will continue to provide an immunity shield for the present inhuman regime in the land of Palestine. Miriam Margolyes in her book - "This Much is True," covers her time in Israel rather well. Her experiences are also worth a read. As are those of so many others - including Antony Loewenstein. Posted by Foxy, Friday, 1 December 2023 12:35:44 PM
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The criticism of Professor Ilan Pappe is not surprising
seeing as his work has sought to challenge the accepted truths and beliefs and this led to his being forced to resign from the University of Haifa in 2007. The noted Israeli scholar now teaches at Exeter University in the United Kingdom. The Professor presents the history of the state of Israel in a way that encompasses the narrative of the Palestinian people. Which is a very bold ambition in a society in which militarism, nationalism, and of course religion have been and are potent unifying forces. His works are worth a read. Posted by Foxy, Friday, 1 December 2023 1:03:06 PM
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been supported by the United Nation's investigators,
the African National Congress (ANC), several human rights
groups and many prominent Israeli political and cultural
figures.
Of course, in the eyes of many Israelis and their supporters
worldwide - Israel to them is a benign, democratic state,
seeking peace with its neighbours, and guaranteeing equality
to all of its citizens. That myth has no historical foundation
when history has shown the state subjected its Palestinian
population to military rule, based on draconian British
Mandatory emergency regulations that denied the Palestinians
any basic human or civil rights.
Where Local military
governments were the absolute rulers of the lives of these
citizens . They could devise special laws for them, destroy
their homes, and livelihoods, and send them to jail whenever
they felt like it.
History lies at the core of every conflict. A true and
unbiased understanding of the past offers the possibility
of peace. The distortion or manipulation of history, in
contrast, will only sow disaster.
As we have seen, historical disinformation, even of the
most recent past, can do tremendous harm. This willful
misunderstanding of history can promote oppression and
protect a regime of colonization and occupation.
It is not surprising therefore that policies of
disinformation and distortion continue, leaving very
little hope for the future.
Constructed fallacies about both the past and the present
in Israel and Palestine hinder us from understanding
the origins of the conflict. Meanwhile, the constant
manipulation of the relevant facts works against
the interests of all those victimized by the ongoing
bloodshed and violence.