Dear Paul,

«I dislike Zionism and Hamas, as they are too extreme by nature.»

Well, do you even know what 'Zionism' means?
If it meant what passes for 'Zionism' in the media, in Arab propaganda and in Netanyahu's speeches, then I not only understand you but dislike it as well - yet I consider it a misconception and a distortion of history.

I rather see Zionism as the attempt of certain young and idealist European Jews to be free of the shackles of their miserable Jewish-diasporic existence that they were born into, oppressed by anti-Semitism from without and the nagging Rabbis from within.

The original Zionists believed that once they till the soil with their own hands instead of shuffling paper, money and intrigues, they will no longer be hated. They admired the Arabs, considering them their own brothers who already lived on the land, wanted to be more like them and to have them joyfully join in with their Zionist project, walking hand in hand towards the rainbow.

The tragedy was that being so naive, their conception of the local Arabs was a fantasy and they failed to understand that these Arabs were extremely conservative and afraid of their progressive ideas, especially afraid that the Zionists would emancipate their women. They were not rejected by these Arabs because they were Jews - they were rejected because they were progressive socialists like yourself...

«The military outcome will be in Israels favour, they hold the (American) firepower, at the determent of the Palestinian people. Agree?»

I do hope so, because otherwise my family would be dead. While likely, I am not a prophet and in war anything could happen, especially if more parties join the fight.

Two revealing essays on 7/10:

http://www.thefp.com/p/douglas-murray-diary-israel-hamas-hostages-war?publication_id=260347&post_id=139284915&isFreemail=true&r=yczim

Douglas Murray has been on the ground in Israel and Gaza from the outset. Here he talks about the actual people who lived through the barbarian raids. He points out here as he has previously that those who lived nearest to the Gaza were the so-called 'peacenik' faction of Israeli society, those most well disposed toward the Gazans and most anxious to reach peace with them. They invited Gazans across the border and worked with them, endeavouring to create links of friendship between the communities.

These Gazans, who the peaceniks tried to befriend, used the opportunity to surveil the various kibbutz and pass the information to Hamas who in turn used the information to plan and coordinate the attacks on those same peaceniks. Their attempts at friendship resulted in a more efficient way of murdering them.

These people will never again trust the Gazans. The peace process is over. for them. I've seen similar stories coming out of the West Bank.

The Israelis have determined that, for the good of their people, Hamas must be eliminated. Because Hamas hides behind burkas and kids, that means many deaths. But Hamas will be, as far as Israel is able, eliminated. Those sitting back in suburban Australia and tut-tutting about that no longer matter to the people who saw their hand of friendship rejected.

Speaking of the people in suburban Australia, Europe and the US this article is revelatory... http://nypost.com/2023/11/30/opinion/anti-israel-protests-have-a-higher-purpose-a-complete-teardown-of-the-west/

Referring to the demonstrations in the US (but it could equally be applied to those here) the author opines "[Th]is was an atavistic celebration of mass murder — this time not at home by hijacked airliner, but rather in a land far away conducted one bloody-handed execution at a time, and 1,400-plus overall.

It was an enthusiastic endorsement of rape, torture, mutilation and kidnapping — a brutal forecast of what the Palestinian war cry “from the river to the sea” really means: extermination in detail."

I'd ask how the pro-Palestinian, pro-murder, pro-rape crowd live with themselves, but I assume the sleep just fine. Anti-Semitism has that effect.

Foxy,

I pointed out that claims that Israel is an apartheid society is based on a naive and ignorant lack of understanding of both Israel and South Africa. I gave one of many examples of the substantive difference between the two and pointed out that your definition of the word was an abject failure.

You never addressed that.

Although I know you like to subsume your opines and thinking to people you determine are experts, just finding every more anti-Israel groups and organisations (eg the UN) who repeat the anti-Semitic claims, doesn't cut it for me. I prefer to do my own thinking.

'But Hamas will be, as far as Israel is able, eliminated'.

No they won't.
Hamas isn't simply people, it's an idea.
- And you can't kill an idea.

And FYI many of those killed on Oct 7 were killed by IDF.
It was Israel's military who refused to accept warnings from their own and others that was the real failure.

Hi Yuyutsu,

I read about Zionism, and like most ism's I'm not impressed.

mhaze,

Douglas Murray - the well known anti-Islam Brit. is
who you choose to quote.

You find that the
accusation that Israel is committing apartheid as
supported by the United Nation's investigators, the
African National Congress (ANC) human rights groups,
prominent Israeli political and cultural figures,
journalists, newspapers, authors, people who've
lived and worked in Israel and experienced things
first-hand, - They are all anti-Semitic?

You tell me that I don't know the meaning of apartheid.
That I rely on the opinions of experts.

Do you read your own posts before you post?

Disagreeing with you is not a character flaw. And accusing
Israel of apartheid is not anti-Semitic. It describes
reality.

Criticizing the Israeli government should be viewed in
a positive light that could help make everyone more safe
more free, more equal. The freedom and safety of Jewish
Israelis and the freedom and safety of Christians and
Muslim Palestinians are not mutually exclusive.