The Forum > General Discussion > The last days of the Russian Empire
The last days of the Russian Empire
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Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 28 January 2023 7:16:27 AM
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"It might come as a shock to you, but partisans assassinating collaborators assisting the Russian occupation has never been a war crime."
I'd argue otherwise, it seems more like the murder of unarmed Russian speaking civillians to me, and an even bigger crime when you go door to door in Bucha detaining people with white armbands, zip-ties their hands behinds their back and then putting a bullet in the back of their heads and then saying Russians did it. - And it wasn't simply 'assassinating collaborators'... It was assassinating 'SUSPECTED' collaborators. Capital punishment without any fair trial. (But that's no a real lot different to dead Ukrainian conscripts taken at gunpoint and sent to the front line.) If Russia had've done the same thing to captured Azov brigade, it would be you screaming Geneva convention and war crimes. "What are war crimes are attacks on civilian buildings and infrastructure with missiles and shells, the torture and execution of civilians etc all crimes committed in thousands by the Russians." No the recognised war crime is putting military targets in proximity of civilians, which Ukraine certainly has done, deliberately using the buildings for defense and as such, using the people who live in them as human shields. Zelensky even said he opposed evacuating Kiev when they have no power or water, because Kiev could more easily be attacked and captured if evacuated. He'd rather they freeze in their own homes and use them as human shields then take them out of harms way. The ABRAMS likely wont be present for Ukraine's coming offensive, though the US mite be being ambiguous. But Biden needed to ensure German Panzers were. I'm told the Leopard 2 is quite formidable, and built to destroy Russian tanks. Looks like Ukraine got lucky in Ugledar and pushed the Russians out, for now. Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 28 January 2023 11:23:21 AM
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/26/is-biden-right-to-send-tanks-to-ukraine-our-panel-reacts
Look what these morons are saying: "These tanks aren’t going to help end the war any time soon. Hopefully, they are intended to build up Kyiv’s negotiating position and this might encourage the Kremlin to rethink its extreme war aims, thus moving this war toward a negotiated endgame." 'Build up Kievs negotiating position'? Neither side is going to negotiate, one side is going to have to capitulate. On the Russian side, if they are not doing well it will only harden their resolve and make it much easier to mobilise another 500K. There's too much at stake for both Russia and US / NATO, both sides face existential threats, Russia stands to be surrounded by the West and chopped up into tiny pieces, and have their culture destroyed where the West stands to have NATO lose and break up, and its rules based order of threats, blackmail (sanctions), regime change and military intervention as well as it's global hegemony at risk. Whereas Ukraine is merely just a pawn in a bigger game. Chances are probably even money this mess will end in a nuclear confrontation. What I don't like is that even right now all citizens of all countries are going to have to pay back debts incurred by their countries for generations because of a few who WANTED to start a war. It's not Zelensky, Putin or Biden who will pay for this war. It's the citizens of all the countries who will spend years working and paying taxes to cover the increased cost of living and war debts. - When all our nations money comes as a debt with interest payable. All these countries are committing military equipment to a war that even they haven't paid for as its all funded by an increase in national debt. Great for the bankers and elite plans of global conquest, but horrible for all nations citizens. Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 28 January 2023 11:49:56 AM
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AC,
The collaborators were Ukrainians in senior positions in Kherson and Zaporizhya notably the Enemy appointed mayors had a particularly short life expectancy. Shooting random civilians is a Russian, not Ukrainian thing. There were no military targets anywhere near the buildings hit by Russian missiles and shells. The about 150 leopard 2 will smash the Russians, The US has 13 000 Abrams in service or in storage which are ready for action. Ukraine also has roughly another 150 T72s The $40bn that the US has pledged to Ukraine is 5% of the annual US military budget and most of the weapons they have sent are from obsolete stock e.g. stingers. Russia is losing about 800 soldiers killed per day with their WW1 type of attacks. They are losing about 2-3 tanks a day on average which is 3x the amount they can build. Their missile attacks are getting smaller and further apart which indicates that they are running out. It looks as though Russia is heading for 3rd world economic status. Posted by shadowminister, Saturday, 28 January 2023 12:35:18 PM
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"There were no military targets anywhere near the buildings hit by Russian missiles and shells."
Of course there were in areas being defended, and when there wasn't its foreign fighters or western arms and other western military / war related staff being housed. "Russia is losing about 800 soldiers killed per day with their WW1 type of attacks." Potato potarto, he says she says, whatever That's may not be factual any more than its just hype from one side. This could make things interesting however: Western partners promise to provide Kyiv with 321 heavy tanks – Ukrainian ambassador to France http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/887589.html "Their missile attacks are getting smaller and further apart which indicates that they are running out." I think I heard that their current industrial capacity is 3 million rounds of ammunition per year, which is about half what they're using. They will have to double production to keep up. Found this interesting - Why is Germany trying to get shells for the Leopard 2's from Brazil? It was only a small shipment (4.9 million worth) But it begs the question why do they need them? http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/887518.html I'm fairly sure both ABRAMS and LEOPARD 2 both use same 120mm shells. US must have plenty ammo one would think, so why is Germany going to Brazil? Tank Chats - Leopard 2 | The Tank Museum http://youtu.be/B4cl45gLB2U Posted by Armchair Critic, Saturday, 28 January 2023 10:26:00 PM
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AC,
The whole of Ukraine is being defended, so by your logic, all women and children in Ukraine are legitimate targets. Why does Germany buy ammunition from Brazil? Perhaps because Brazil has a huge German population, a massive industrial base, and close industrial ties. Also, it is cheaper and faster. The same question could be why Russia is buying ammunition from North Korea. The effect of the oil cap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z68JAgpXTzE&t=400s On Feb 5, 2023, the EU ban will extend to all refined oil products. The noose around Russia's economy is getting tighter and tighter. In 1990 Russia pulled out of Afghanistan when wives and mothers reacted to the 15000 husbands and sons coming back in body bags. Though Russia is being careful to hide its casualties, the vast numbers of funerals and soldiers "missing" is not going unnoticed, and when families realize that sons and husbands are unlikely to come back alive then things will get bad for Putin. Posted by shadowminister, Sunday, 29 January 2023 6:52:44 AM
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It might come as a shock to you, but partisans assassinating collaborators assisting the Russian occupation has never been a war crime.
What are war crimes are attacks on civilian buildings and infrastructure with missiles and shells, the torture and execution of civilians etc all crimes committed in thousands by the Russians.
Since Russia has claimed to have their air defence systems, they have failed to shoot down a single HIMARS rocket. This is due to these rockets travelling at about Mach 4 and in groups. Any air defence system has only about 10 seconds to identify, target and fire a missile before the rocket is gone.
I see that other countries are piling on giving Ukraine about 150 leopard 2s plus Abrams and 60 T72s and also more Howitzers and HIMARS systems.