Paul L

As for your question about whether I "honestly believe that Hamas has ANY intention of making peace with Israel":

I have no way of knowing. It is difficult to give either Hamas or the current Israeli government the benefit of the doubt, regarding peaceful intentions, or a just resolution of the conflict.

It is plain to me that the Israelis have the more powerful and better funded military, and chokepoint control over most flows of energy, resources and information across Gazan borders. To my way of thinking, that power gives them proportionate responsibility for the nature and consequences of the ongoing conflict.

The spectrum of information and propaganda suggests to me that the Gazan people are more united behind Hamas than the Israeli people are, behind their current government. That makes it only more difficult to resolve the conflict peacefully, as both parties are currently committed to combat. I do not know how many Israeli Jews, Arabs and others volunteer for their military. Likewise, I do not know how many of Hamas' combatants are volunteers.

What is plain to me is that oppression breeds fear, solidarity and resistance on both sides of the Gazan border. Israel clearly has the upper hand and bears proportionate responsibility. Also responsible are the players behind the scenes, insofar as the conflict is war by proxy.

Thanks, Socratease, for the list of URL's.
Others may also be interested in
http://www.btselem.org/English/Gaza_Strip/20081231_Gaza_Letter_to_Mazuz.asp

This link to a letter to the Israeli Attorney General, by a Jewish human rights group, discusses Israel's responsibility for indiscriminate casualties in Gaza:

"The principle of distinction, one of the fundamental principles of international humanitarian law, states that all parties engaged in combat must distinguish between civilian objects and military targets, and are forbidden to intentionally attack civilians and civilian objects."

Of course, the same principle applies to Hamas and others who attack Israel indiscriminately, for whatever reason. To me, it is a question of appropriate response, aiming toward conflict resolution and justice for all. Israel could do better. Certainly some of its people are trying, but their efforts are rarely publicised

Dear All

Here is more interesting "facts" from honest research:

Go to www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229 to the article by one of Israel's most respected journalists. It is called

"AN INVENTION CALLED THE JEWISH PEOPLE."

Before any of you scream "anti-semite" at me please note it was written in Israel's leading newspaper by an Israeli journalist.There's be thousands in Israel who always knew this but kept it under wraps but the savage murder of over 400 Gazans has forced Israelis to embrace the bitter truth.

Score one to Hamas. They are paying the price of legitimacy in blood.

I am not taking sides.When anyone searches for the truth it seems inevitable that what comes to be unesrthed will be unpalatable for some. But as the Galilean radical in first century Palestine once said:

"Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

Hmm.

socratease

from
http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
I apologize..for the'language'which will appear'here-UNDER'

from The official unabridged'Soncino'Edition of the'Talmud'published in 1935..quotations with footnotes from the Soncino Edition of the Talmud,(Book)

YEBAMOTH,60b."As R.Joshua,b.Levi related:`There was a certain town in the Land of Israel the legitimacy of whose inhabitants disputed,and Rabbi sent R.Ramanos who conducted an inquiry and'found'in it the daughter of a'proselyte'who was under the age of three years and one day(14),and Rabbi declared her eligible to live with a priest(15)."

(footnotes)"(13)A proselyte under the age of three years and one day may be married by a priest...(14)And was married to a priest.(15)i.e.,permitted to continue to live with her'husband'."

(Book)

SANHEDRIN,55b-55a:"What is meant by this?Rab said:Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that.

Samuel said:Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that(2].....55a)(he)who commits bestiality,whether naturally or unnaturally:...or a woman who causes herself to be beastially abused,....whether naturally or unnaturally,is liable to punishment(5)."

(footnotes)"(1)The reference is to..the passive..'subject'/victim..of sodomy.

As stated in supra[54a,guilt is incurred by the active participant even if the former be a minor;i.e.,less than thirteen years old...

2)Rab makes nine years the minimum;but if one committed sodomy with a child of lesser age,no guilt is incurred...Samuel makes three the minimum.(There are thus three distinct clauses in this Baraitha.

why single out pederasty:in all crimes of incest,..the'passive'adult does not incur'guilt'unless the other'party'is at least nine years and a day?

Hence the Baraitha supports Rab's'contention'that nine years(and a day)is the minimum age of the...passive partner..for the adult to be liable."(emphasis in original,Ed.)

Before giving any more verbatim quotations from the"sort of book" from which it is falsely alleged Jesus"drew the teachings''..

In'official-statement'made by Rabbi Morris N.Kertzer..that the Talmud"IS THE LEGAL CODE WHICH FORMS THE BASIS OF JEWISH RELIGIOUS LAW AND IT IS THE TEXTBOOK USED IN THE TRAINING OF RABBIS".Please bear this in mind as you read further.

http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm

Is further proof needed on that question?let those in glass houses know they stand on in-firm ground's[by their deeds will we know them]

Top[5]Lies..Assault on Gaza[edited]
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6956

Lie#1]..Israel..only targeting'legitimate/..military'sites,..seeking to protect'innocent'lives...never'targets'civilians.

The Gaza Strip..densely populated..The presence of'militants'within a civilian population does not deprive that population of their'protected-status',...any assault upon that'population'..under the guise of targeting'militants'..is'a war crime.

...When rockets from Gaza
kill Israeli civilians,it is a war crime.


Karen Abuzayd..Israel violated the truce,not Hamas....Members of Hamas are the democratically-elected-representatives of the Palestinian people..

Dozens of these elected leaders have been kidnapped and held in Israeli prisons without charge...

..Israel’s allowing only the most minimal/amounts of humanitarian supplies to enter...Israel is bombing'and'killing Palestinian civilians...Hospitals running on generators have little or no fuel...Doctors have no proper equipment or medical supplies to treat the injured.These people,too,are the victims of Israeli policies targeted..directly'designed/planed'to punish the civil-ian population.

Lie#2)Hamas violated the cease-fire.The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire..

Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with.

From the beginning,it announced a“special security zone”..within the Gaza Strip..Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals...in direct violation of not only the cease-fire..but international law.

..Israel effectively ended the truce on November[4]by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.

Lie#3)Hamas is using human shields,a war crime..There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields....Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare[such as]the assassination of Nizar Rayan,...It is victims like his'dead children'that Israel defines as“human shields”in its propaganda.

Lie#4)Arab nations have not'condemned'Israel’s actions..The populations of those Arab countries are outraged at Israel’s actions and at their own governments...Simply stated, the Arab governments do not represent'their'respective'Arab-populations'...either complacency or complicity in Israel’s crimes...because they are submissive to the will of the US,which fully supports Israel.

Lie#5)Israel is not responsible for civilian'deaths'because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee....But the people of Gaza have nowhere to flee to....They are trapped within the Gaza Strip...It is by Israeli design that they cannot escape across the border..that they have no food,water,or fuel by which to survive..No place is safe within the Gaza Strip.
The Real Goal of the Gaza Assault
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6929
Gulf states agree on monetary union
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6899
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6937

Sir Vivor,

You say >> “As for your question about whether I "honestly believe that Hamas has ANY intention of making peace with Israel: … I have no way of knowing. It is difficult to give either Hamas or the current Israeli government the benefit of the doubt, regarding peaceful intentions, or a just resolution of the conflict. “

I assume you have read the Hamas charter where they explicitly state that there will be NO PEACE with Israel. And the passages where they quote the Quran about the wiping out of all the Jews?

I’m sure you have seen them but just in case, let me repeat them here for you.

_________________

Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."

"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

__________________

I struggle to believe this organisation, a radical Islamist movement committed to a literal interpretation of the Koran, doesn’t mean exactly what they say.

You say >> “Israel clearly has the upper hand and bears proportionate responsibility”

Tell me what you think the unilateral withdrawal from Gaza was, if not an olive branch? A chance for the Palestinians to respond? As the old quote about Yasser Arafat goes, “he never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity”. It seems things never change.

TBC

It is unrealistic to suggest that "If the Israeli government really cared about its citizens and the country's long term ability to sustain itself in the Middle East, it would abandon the use of violence and talk with its enemies."

Note that Israel has been talking with its enemies since the 1960's to no avail. After 47 years of talking nothing has changed, so the time is nigh for a strongher strategy. Both sides seem to be overly fanatical about the religious importance they attach to the land and, each other's rights to occupy it. There seems no alternative but war however, I believe that Israel has grossly underestimated and miscalculated its chances of success. IRAQ is an awesome example of underestimating the enemy.

Like the previous wars, this one is doomed and that, is my greater concern; that this war will change nothing but it will prolong endless suffering, death and injury without any real achievment.