Socratease, by all means share the links to some of the websites you mention.

As for name calling, save your breath to cool your porridge, and leave it to those among us who do cute things with some names and ugly things with others.

Kind regards,

Mark Conley

Thank you for a very knowledgeable post.You were absolutely right. It is such a pity that on this website we have to counter the ignorant,racist gibes of idiots.
Do they know that from the very start they broke their word to Lord Balfour when they approached the Under Secretary ( I think) for foreign affairs and specializing in the Middle East. For those who can still get past the basics of our ABC the Lord Balfour's Declaration succinctly stated that at no time should talks and discussions proceed without first consulting the Arabs who were in a 80% majority in Palestine.Futhermore he demanded that at no time were the native Arabs to be dispossessed or taken advantage of by bribes ( or forced prices)that they should nebe be put at any disadvantage.Well, Mark, to his eternal Chaim Weizman and his delegates broke the covenant from the start.He openy flaunted the truth that he never intended being burdened by an unworkable formula imposed by an Englishman who harboured anti-semitic feelings.Shame on him!And the gutless Brits went along with it all, the hyprocisy and duplicity.If you ask me it was all play acting...nudge,nudge, wink,wink.

socratease

Socratease,

You say >> “This space is for intelligent discussion so what the hell are you doing here.”

I had to laugh when I read that. Intelligent discussion, I love it. Does intelligent discussion in your mind consist of ant-Israeli sloganeering? How about being the cheer squad for Hamas terrorists? Is that intelligent discussion?

There is no solution to the situation until the violence stops. Hamas are attempting to change the facts on the ground by the use of violence and the appeal to the leftist minority globally. Basically they are fighting a PR battle with the blood of their own people.

Israel on the other hand, have the military might to crush their enemies, but know they will never be allowed.

These two constraints are what has lead to this point of seeming never ending conflict. Neither side can win in a strategic and lasting sense.

Clearly Israel are following a short term strategy, protection of their people from the incessant rocketing. This is a valid tactical goal that all gov’ts are charged with upholding.

As for Deir Yassein, it is pointless to quote random acts of bastardry as if they explain everything. Days after the massacre in Deir Yassein 80 Jewish doctors and nurses in a convoy headed to Hadassah Hospital on Mt. Scopus near Jerusalem were massacred by Arabs. Tit-for-tat brutality is commonplace in the struggle over the holy lands.

I’m sure as an educated person you know about the forced evacuation of all Jews from the old city district of Jerusalem when the Jordanian Army invaded in 1948. You will know that nearly a million Jews were evicted from their homes across the Arab world. Do you think they will ever be granted a right of return?

You say “Hamas ... They are to be admired... They know they are called upon to die for the vision splendid”

And you call others embittered, yet you cheer on people who deliberately and calculatedly set out to kill innocent women and children. Very Heroic. There is NOTHING admirable about Hamas. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Just a thought but maybe if Israel hadn't blocked Gaza's electricity and water supplies the rocket attacks may not have resumed.

Polycarp, I notice you still have an unhealthy fetish for quoting only from the Surah as justification for your unbalanced world view.

Why not switch to the Torah for a while. It's pretty much the same stuff.

Interesting op-ed in the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/30/opinion/30morris.html?_r=1&em=&pagewanted=all
(or Google Bernie Morris New York Times, on Google News)

The second half of the article discusses changing Israeli demography and its contribution to internal tensions.

I was led there from an article in the Huffington Post, by Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur on Human Rights in the Palestinian Territories, who was "expelled from Gaza a couple of weeks ago ...".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-falk/understanding-the-gaza-ca_b_154777.html

Both articles are thoughtful. They articulate and illuminate points made by Neve Gordon and some of our clearer posts in reply.

Both exceed the 350 word limit on Forum posts.

Both articles avoid asinine name-calling, and the religion-based blaming and vilification that some of our posters offer up here, in place of critical analysis.

Falk remarks:
"There are two conclusions that emerge: the people of Gaza are being severely victimized for reasons remote from the rockets and border security concerns, but seemingly to improve election prospects of current leaders now facing defeat, and to warn others in the region that Israel will use overwhelming force whenever its interests are at stake.

"That such a human catastrophe can happen with minimal outside interference also shows the weakness of international law and the United Nations, as well as the geopolitical priorities of the important players."

Neither Falk nor Morris leave me much of optimism.

The Real Goal/Gaza Assault?..Jonathan Cook/Counterpunch/January

full-scale ground invasion of the Gaza...will they dare to move into the real battlegrounds of central Gaza?Or will they simply be used,as they have been in the past,to terrorise the civilian population on the peripheries?

Gaza,is one mammoth refugee camp.Its narrow alleys,incapable of being negotiated by Merkava tanks,will force Israeli soldiers out into the open.[now with bombed[collapsed buildings blocking acces ever more,Gaza,is a death trap.]

The decision to sacrifice many soldiers in Gaza is not one Mr Barak,will take lightly with an election in six weeks and require the permanent military reoccupation of Gaza.

It would once again have to assume responsibility for the welfare of the local civilian population,and the army would be forced into treacherous policing of Gaza’s teeming camps.

an invasion of Gaza to overthrow Hamas would be a reversal of the trend in Israeli policy since the Oslo process of the early 1990s...Naively,Arafat assumed he was leading a government-in-waiting.

In truth,he simply became Israel’s chief security/oppression contractor.

Arafat was tolerated during the 1990s because he did little to stop Israel’s effective annexation of large parts of the West Bank through the rapid expansion of settlements and increasingly harsh movement restrictions on Palestinians while preparing for a statehood that never arrived.

Israel has sought to consolidate the physical separation of the Strip from the much-coveted West Bank...Even if not originally desired by Israel,Hamas’s takeover of Gaza has contributed significantly to that goal.

It has proved it is strong,but can it be made useful to Israel,too?

The savage blockade deprived Gaza’s population of essentials..Israel has barely bothered to hit the Hamas leadership or its military wing.Instead it has bombed the tunnels,Hamas’s treasure chest,and it has killed substantial numbers of ordinary policemen,the guarantors of law and order in Gaza.

Israel apparently hopes to persuade the Hamas leadership,as it did Arafat for a while,that its best interests are served by co-operating with Israel...israel and Hamas are almost certain in the end to agree to another ceasefire.in doing so,Hamas,like Arafat before it,loses sight of its primary task:to force Israel to end its occupation.