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The Forum > Article Comments > What is Israel's Gaza goal? > Comments

What is Israel's Gaza goal? : Comments

By Neve Gordon, published 31/12/2008

Israel seems more concerned with electoral politics and restoring its military reputation than stopping the Qassam rockets

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Socratease,
thank you for the interesting links. Here's where one of them led me:

http://gaza-sderot.blogspot.com/

This is a conversation between a man in Gaza and a man in Sderot. I am hoping their efforts toward understanding continue, and flourish.

Also:

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9565.doc.htm

Yesterday's press release from the UN Security Council. An excerpt:

"As the Council concluded the special meeting it began yesterday on the Gaza crisis, speakers expressed deep concern that thus far into the 12-day-old conflict, neither side had heeded worldwide calls for an immediate cessation of hostilities. ... Still, it was the plight of the nearly 1.5 million Palestinian civilians trapped by the fighting, and the deteriorating humanitarian conditions, that drew the most concern."

Imagine if food distribution in a metropolitan area the size of Hobart (about 150,000) were restricted to 3 hours per day. Then multiply by 10, and you have the population of Gaza. I guess we here in Hobart could thank our lucky stars that no-one was blowing up schools, hospitals and ambulances.

Three hours per day, for about 80 trucks to cross the border, with all necessary supplies into Gaza, 3 hours to distribute them.

While I was washing dishes this morning, I thought of an old favourite, "Bridge on the River Kwai" - and the carrot and stick approach (much overcivilised, for '50's moviegoers)of the camp commandant, in that soft-focus cameo of the Burma Railway atrocities.

"Be happy in your work" he exhorted, and ordered presents be distributed, from the covered back of a truck that on other occasions had revealed a machine gunner.
Posted by Sir Vivor, Friday, 9 January 2009 8:32:16 AM
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Sir Vivir,

You say >> “I have had firsthand experience of white phosphorus.”

Then you should know that dispersing WP at the heights indicated in the photos is FAR, FAR less dangerous than common garden variety HE artillery or mortar shells ( point detonating or airburst ) and not even in the same universe as using WP in a point detonating antipersonnel role. Secondly, it looked to me like it was possible that the smokescreen was being laid between the advancing Israelis and the built up area, and not in the town itself.

You say >> “The smokescreen would be as confusing for IDF troops as for Hamas insurgents, unless the IDF troops use Gazan civilians as human shields …”

This is not the case at all. The most likely use of a smokescreen is to shield from sight an advance or retreat over open ground. This is another reason which leads me to believe that the WP was being detonated outside the town. I may be wrong, if you have evidence otherwise I would like to see it. But your apparent willingness to believe the absolute worst is disturbing, and I believe entirely unwarranted.

You say >> “If the IDF targets a “smart" weapon at a civilian refuge such as a UN school, the target controller done something cruel, stupid and criminal”

You are referring to the UN school where 40 people were killed. This is truly tragic incident and should be investigated. In my opinion though, Israel is only guilty of a war crime if they knew that there was no-one firing mortars from the school; or they were deliberately trying to kill the civilians. If Hamas were firing mortars from the school, using the cover of the civilians and the UN, then Hamas are culpable. The cartoon in the Australian newspaper captures the moral vacuum in which Hamas operate. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/gallery/0,26637,5024287-20581,00.html#

As someone who has some understanding of military matters, you would know that a mortar battery with a well placed spotter can do a lot of damage to infantry in an open area.

TBC
Posted by Paul.L, Friday, 9 January 2009 9:38:48 AM
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CONT’

Israel cannot afford to allow a free fire period on Israeli troops, merely because there are civilians nearby the mortar firing position. They must rely on the accuracy of their weapons to spare any civilian deaths. Unfortunately this is not a failsafe guarantee.

I know that the Head of the UN school denied there were militants firing mortars from the school compound, but accepted that he might be wrong. I sincerely doubt Hamas would have liaised with the Head Master if they were going to use his compound and the civillians in it as a human shield.

You say >> “if collaborators are reliably assisting the IDF with targeting, why are these valuable intelligence assets not better used by Israel to build more directly toward peace …”

How? I’m not sure what you are getting at?

You say >> “… you evidently have no grasp of how very cruel and stupid the Israeli government currently looks to many …”

Sir Vivor, I am fully aware than many people feel that way. Many people feel the way I do as well. There is no doubt this is a polarising issue, and the letters to the editors page shows this every day. The citizens in bomb shelters in Israel no doubt have little love for Hamas and consider them cruel and stupid. However as a thinking person, I have no interest in the popularity of one view over another. It is entirely irrelevant. What is right is right no matter how many people agree.

You say >> “What, in your opinion, is Israel’s goal in Gaza?”

I’m glad you asked. I think Israel is trying to prevent Hamas from being able to fire rockets into Israel. At this point my understanding is that the IDF have bisected the Gaza Strip, preventing the rockets smuggled over the border from reaching their northern launch sites. I think they are probably also trying to destroy weapons caches, border tunnels, kill Hamas leaders and reduce the standing strength of Hamas’ military wing.

What, in your opinion, is Israel’s goal in Gaza?”
Posted by Paul.L, Friday, 9 January 2009 9:41:58 AM
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Paul L, you say, regarding goals:
"I think Israel is trying to prevent Hamas from being able to fire rockets into Israel. At this point, my understanding is that the IDF have bisected the Gaza Strip, preventing the rockets smuggled over the border from reaching their northern launch sites. I think they are probably also trying to destroy weapons caches, border tunnels, kill Hamas leaders and reduce the standing strength of Hamas’ military wing."

You have named military objectives. My concern is political goals.

You mention the IDF objective of bisecting the Gaza Strip. I wonder why that was not done at the outset? Given the sparseness of population, the added open space and the relative lack of infrastructure in the middle of the Gaza Strip, not to mention the vast superiority of IDF power, a broad DMZ is relatively easily established, and defended against inaccurate rocket fire and other attacks from Hamas’ under-resourced army.

Why wait until Gaza City is pulverised and so many of its civilians murdered, or maimed and terrorised?

My goal would be a mediated settlement between Palestinian and Israeli governments that is supported by both the Palestinian and Israeli people, and includes mutually acceptable and enforceable measures to deal with injustices on both sides.

The United States Senate is right now considering a bill which, among other things,
" ...reiterates its strong support for United
States Government efforts to promote a just resolution
of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a serious
and sustained peace process that leads to the
creation of a viable and independent Palestinian
state living in peace alongside a secure State of Israel."

http://aipac.org/Publications/SourceMaterialsCongressionalAction/SenateRes.pdf

The US track record on Israel and Palestine is not encouraging, but given the upcoming change of administration, I must give them the benefit of the doubt.

Supposedly, Israel is committed to a political goal of a viable two-state solution. Do you suppose that at this time next year, we will have reached a milestone worthy of the name, toward this destination?
Posted by Sir Vivor, Friday, 9 January 2009 1:34:32 PM
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Postscript

Seems as though no-one has any more to say, but we are none the wiser about Israel’s goal - and not much edified concerning its military objectives, beyond reading of the ongoing IDF IHR blunders and working overtime on charitable (or blaming) explanations.

I believe it’s worth citing the final paragraphs of an opinion piece dated 9-I-09, by Anthony Cordesman, of the US-based Center for Strategic and International Studies:
http://www.csis.org/index.php?option=com_csis_pubs&task=view&id=5188

“Has Israel somehow blundered into a steadily escalating war without a clear strategic goal or at least one it can credibly achieve? Will Israel end in empowering an enemy in political terms that it defeated in tactical terms? Will Israel’s actions seriously damage the US position in the region, any hope of peace, as well as moderate Arab regimes and voices in the process?

To blunt, the answer so far seems to be yes. To paraphrase a comment about the British government’s management of the British Army in World War I, lions seem to be led by donkeys. If Israel has a credible ceasefire plan that could really secure Gaza, it is not apparent. If Israel has a plan that could credibly destroy and replace Hamas, it is not apparent. If Israel has any plan to help the Gazans and move them back towards peace, it is not apparent. If Israel has any plan to use US or other friendly influence productively, it not apparent.

As we have seen all too clearly from US mistakes, any leader can take a tough stand and claim that tactical gains are a meaningful victory. If this is all that Olmert, Livni, and Barak have for an answer, then they have disgraced themselves and damaged their country and their friends. If there is more, it is time to make such goals public and demonstrate how they can be achieved. The question is not whether the IDF learned the tactical lessons of the fighting in 2006. It is whether Israel's top political leadership has even minimal competence to lead them.”
Posted by Sir Vivor, Tuesday, 13 January 2009 3:47:00 PM
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